New Made keris, dhapur Mundarang

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks Ferry.

It sure doesn't look like mboto rubuh in the photos. That's the difference between a photo and actually having something in one's hand.

In fact, I've never seen a modern keris with mboto rubuh.

Mataram keris have an almost square blumbangan, Surakarta and Majapahit keris have a "brick standing up " ---mboto adeg---blumbangan, the most obvious mboto rubuh --- "brick fallen over" --- blumbangan is really only found in one of the divisions of Pajajaran, so to find one in a fairly recent keris like this one is a real surprise.

However, the important thing is this:- it is not a mboto adeg blumbangan, and Surakarta should have this, or at least, if not classic mboto adeg, it should be long, upright and narrow, this narrowness in turn creating a short gulu meled.

Additionally I cannot see very distinct kruwingan or kusen in this blade, there is a fairly obvious ada - ada, but it seems --- in the pic --- to create a more or less diamond cross section in the blade, whereas a Surakarta ada-ada should be nicely modelled, not abrupt.

There is a tungkakan, but in a Surakarta keris it should be rounded, in the photos I cannot see if it is rounded or not, it looks more like it has been formed by a rather sharp line. Additionally, if we look closely at the ron dha, there is some inconsistency evident, yes, the ron dha are Surakarta, but there is considerable variation in form, almost as if the maker was not accustomed to cutting this form, and was really trying hard to get it right from a drawing --- and the wadidang seems a little too high and too long, but this could easily be because of camera angle, it might look different in the hand.

Taking all these things together, I must say I am somewhat confused.

On the one hand we have a blade that appears to have a Surakarta pawakan, and Surakarta ron dha, but the other features that we would expect to see in a typical Surakarta blade appear to be absent.

According to what I have been taught a blade with this mix of characteristics must be under some suspicion as to origin.

We're coming dangerously close to playing the tangguh game here, and I absolutely refuse to commit myself on any dubious tangguh from photographs, but Ferry, you have this in your hand, may I suggest that you seek a few knowledgeable local opinions?

On the face of it, I believe this blade is worthy of very close inspection.

How is the ganja fixed? Does it use a key and keyway?

Does the pesi where it enters the ganja decline marginally? If there is a marginal decline, it cannot be SKA, and is likely to be Madura.

How long is the pesi, and how is the tip of the pesi finished?

Is the ganja sebit ron?

Is there a very marginal rounding of the buntut urang?

Is the palemahan flat, or is it a bit rounded? SKA should be flat.

Is there any filler present between ganja and wilah?

What is the nature of the pamor material?

What is the nature of the iron?

Has it been heat treated ?

How heavy is it?

Ferry, if you want to confirm if this is a Surakarta blade or not, these are some of the things you will need to look at and consider. There is no way, no way at all that this can be done through the medium of photographs, and it might be as well to seek more than one knowledgeable opinion.

Thank You Alan,
I found so many Information from your reply. Those indicators that I've never realize before. I'll make a further observation on this keris by using the indicators you gave to me.
I bought this keris as a new made keris and also the price I paid for. our discussion gave me more actual knowledge and understanding to comprehence my lack of experience. this would take some time and effort to fully determine whether I will conclude this keris as a new product or an old keris. I'll also ask for more advises from mates who has more experience and knowledge about surakartan keris.
then I think we could end this discussion, exept another would like to continue.

for all forum mates, another opinion or question would just great.

FERRYLAKI

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Ferry, I think that's the way to go.

Let a few experienced people handle it, seek their opinions, and then make up your own mind. Its just too, too hard to be very definite about some blades when all you have is a photo.

Most of the people that I have met in Jawa who play with tangguh just look at a keris and get a feeling for it. Pak Parman is the only person I ever met who had actually codified all of the indicators of a tangguh, so he might look at a blade and immediately say --- Oh yes, Tangguh such and such. But if he was asked, he could then explain at great length exactly why he had this opinion. This is something I have not seen in any other ahli keris.

Much of what is in my previous post is from Pak Parman's notes on indicators for a Surakarta keris, and if anybody should have known this, it would be him, as he was the Surakarta Karaton empu for a number of years.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Ferry, I think that's the way to go.

Let a few experienced people handle it, seek their opinions, and then make up your own mind. Its just too, too hard to be very definite about some blades when all you have is a photo.

Most of the people that I have met in Jawa who play with tangguh just look at a keris and get a feeling for it. Pak Parman is the only person I ever met who had actually codified all of the indicators of a tangguh, so he might look at a blade and immediately say --- Oh yes, Tangguh such and such. But if he was asked, he could then explain at great length exactly why he had this opinion. This is something I have not seen in any other ahli keris.

Much of what is in my previous post is from Pak Parman's notes on indicators for a Surakarta keris, and if anybody should have known this, it would be him, as he was the Surakarta Karaton empu for a number of years.

I have set my mind fitsr before I ask another person. reading and viewing more photos would be the first action.