Why Post?

kahnjar1 · 25th June 2009, 06:01 AM

Interesting that this subject should come up now, have been having some email contact with a Forum member over another matter, and the comment was passed about the apparent lack of replies to their posts. Are we becoming too apathetic, or is it just a lack of interest in other members collecting field? Personally I find the "other" interests a great learning experience. In my opinion it can become very boring if one only concentrates on their ones items, and not take an interest in what others collect.
Jim--You could maybe answer to one of the observations made, as I don't know the answer. Does the view count only include members, or does it also include "outside surfers"? If this IS the case, it may explain why the number of views way exceeds the replies.
Regards Stuart

Atlantia · 25th June 2009, 01:13 PM

This is an interesting point.
Now obviously there are different 'layers' to the posts and threads on this site, there are the academic study of the high end pieces, which is great and for many of us it's nice to dream....
But then there are also the 'masses' myself included who range from those literally just starting out, general collectors, people who want information on a 'single piece' etc...
Speaking for myself, if I post a picture of a new item I've acquired, I want lots of comments! Yes I hope that amongst the replys someone like Jim will post, as his posts are always overflowing with facts, ideas, and enthusiasm for the field. But I do also realise that we can't always expect the scholarly members to reply in every thread and although I consider those members to be the 'cornerstones' of the site, I'd like to think that the rest of 'us' are the mortar that holds it all together.
Collecting shouldn't be a solitary pursuit, sharing a find with ones friends is an important part of it for me.
I for one, am far happier to get a few short replys to a post from my friends on these forums congratulating me for adding to my collection in these hard times, than when I post and see hundreds of views and nobody bothers to even say 'nice find mate'.
By the same token, I hope that when I can't add anything more than my enthusiasm and congratulations to a thread but still want to show solidarity with one of you, I hope you are not offended or thinking 'spam'.
IMHO there are no bad posts that are well intentioned. The only sad thing is seeing a '0' under replies.

Regards
Gene

Jim McDougall · 25th June 2009, 04:47 PM

Excellent responses here guys! As always I thank you all for the kindnesses toward my efforts, and recognizing the very deep passion I do have for the study of arms. It has been a lifelong passion that long exceeded my once concurrent passion for collecting. I only gave up the collecting in response to profound life events changing the means required to continue the hobby, not my interest in it. As I mentioned, it is wonderful that all of you so openly share your latest conquests and items in your collections, and I am able to vicariously enjoy them as well as continuing my research, which in kind, I enjoy sharing here.

It is wonderful to see the beautifully crafted responses that you have posted here Vandoo, Fearn, Khanjar and Fearn (I know your real names, but use pen names for the benefit of the readers), and these are well thought out and worded, distinctly reflecting your own styles of writing and your distinct personalities.

Your comments are all well placed, and have genuinely brought to my attention perspective I honestly had not thought of, and very much liked Atlantia's analogy of cornerstones and mortar! I agree that there are many variations to degree of response afforded to various posts, and often in proportion to each individuals familiarity or interest in a piece shared. That is well understood, and I admit that myself I often defer comment on the many topics I have limited resources or knowledge on, a broad range indeed, but honestly try to find something to say by searching as much as I can that I might try to say something.
As noted, I find it very sad to see a post standing with 0 responses.

What always impresses me is that there is indeed a great deal of solidarity here, and it is always a pleasure to see such gentlemanly behaviour even in the presence of obvious disagreement. I do admire the fact that everyone does come in with even kind comments that are 'brief' but complimentary when a new acquisition is posted.

What I am saying is addressed to the many readers out there who are clearly present in considerable numbers and that thier input is welcomed.Despite the amount and depth of knowledge being imparted in these threads, it does not diminish the inclusion of the same kind of pleasant comment noted or well placed questions by newcomers or readers. We know you are out there, and we want to know what you think or what questions you might have.

As I have always emphasized, it is how we all learn..together! We share thoughts , ideas, questions, and observations without reservation.

I would again emphasize my deep gratitude to everyone here who does participate, and in whatever degree, and always admire the contributions in text from which I honestly believe we have all learned a great deal. With reference to the excellent analogy of cornerstones, and mortar....not forgetting the solidarity of the stones, I believe we all stand together as a sort of venerable bastion for the advancement of the study of historic arms and armour.

Thank you again everyone!

All very best regards,
Jim

ward · 25th June 2009, 06:19 PM

I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

Norman McCormick · 25th June 2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

Hi,
Milking hard earned knowledge under false pretences for commercial gain is certainly not in the 'spirit' of the Forum to my mind. Members obviously do swap or sell on items now and then but that's all part of collecting. This is probably an emotive subject that should be addressed somewhere but possibly not under this heading.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 25th June 2009, 07:14 PM

" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking,
British arms historian and collector), that he would always
find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object".

"Arms and Armour Study in Edwardian Britain"
Sid Blair and Michael Lacy, 1999

Excellent points Norman, and this is definitely a point of contention commonly faced here, as the weapons acquired and in private collections are typically the basis for our discussions. As I have noted, the gentlemanly demeanor here is certainly in most cases of highest caliber with regard to comments placed on another members weapons. In most cases where a piece is clearly a 'commercial' (trade or souk type souvenier) it is often hard to comment without the hard truth. In these instances I think the members here typically handle the matter deftly and with courtesy.
I think that we have all learned through the years through the academy of hard knocks, and most of it bear the scars of proof....in a sense I suppose we might consider this a kind of collectors 'patination' .
I believe strongly that the most important weapon an arms collector can possess is knowledge, and to never become complacent, never stop learning. This is the very reason why we are here, and why we all do what we do.

I was once told in my job, in which quick judgement calls were the 'order of the day', to make the call as best as you could with details at hand...if you were right ,it would strengthen your proficiency; if you were wrong, a lesson would be learned, and you would become even stronger. Naturally, in degree these 'calls' would vary with circumstances, but in most these ideas would apply.
A collector is by nature often impulsive, and sometimes an opportunity may be lost if action is not taken, but the more well versed they are in knowing the items they are considering, the less chance of the dreaded sting of error.

I would consider that those selling or trading arms that seek correct and accurate information to properly represent and describe those they intend to sell as prudent individuals. There is a profound difference in the laughable descriptions often with items for sale which are designed to deceive, and the typically more conservative captions which reflect true lack of knowledge.
I would only ask that those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward, and channel queries accordingly.

All best regards,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 25th June 2009, 07:28 PM

Quote, " I would only ask those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward and channel queries accordingly." End Quote.

Hi Jim,
The straightforward solutions are often the best.
My Regards,
Norman.

kahnjar1 · 26th June 2009, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

Yes I do agree, but that is the nature of the beast. There are obviously some more than others who do this, but (and I hasten to add that I have not done this................YET) if I were to list an item for sale about which I knew absolutely nothing, I might also be tempted to obtain some information first.
Just remember that none of us are experts and we are all still learning.
Unfortunately if there was a rule for everything, it would make posting on the Forum very difficult, both for the "Postees" and also the site Moderators!
There is a thing called the K.I.S.S principle, which means keep it simple stupid.
Lets not get over regulated!
Regards Stu

Norman McCormick · 25th June 2009, 06:11 PM

Hi,
This is indeed an interesting and sometime difficult subject. As diverse as the subjects on the Forum so it is with the Members who participate, some may feel comfortable with one kind of approach whilst others do not. The dilemma of being really interested but judging whether to risk putting ones big foot in it while on the other hand not wanting to appear disinterested can be problematic, well, for me at least! Not all members have the same 'drive' or ambitions for their collections and it is important to include the curious as well as the enthusiast. I really feel for members, and it is normally newer ones, who, after putting out their hard earned cash, and it is really hard earned for some these days, on a piece find to their dismay that the 'gold' they have dug up is in actual fact 'mud'. I do think on these occasions that a 'diplomatic' and courteous let down is an absolute positive in getting these newer members to 'post and answer' in future and not to be left intimidated by their confusion or lack of knowledge, we all have lack of knowledge in many other spheres. This 'ignorance' can be the root of an unwillingness to reply to posts but is not to be confused with the 'ignorant', a situation which unfortunately a good member thought himself the subject of recently, re ignore list. I do not know of any members on this Forum who are disposed to be dismissive with regard to others ' buying mistakes' and lack of knowledge, we've all been there, in actual fact I have seen several very tactful let downs and corrections but I have seen the opposite on many other forums, sometimes it is the little green god at work, and it doesn't take too long for a clique to form and ruin it for others. I think proactive tolerance, courtesy and a willingness to illuminate, which I must say is very evident on this Forum and certainly lacking in some others, will go a long way in encouraging the less knowledgeable members, and I include myself in that merry band, joining in discussions. I sincerely hope that no Member will take any of the foregoing personally as this is not my intention it is simply observations I have made when comparing similar forums.
My Regards,
Norman.

25th June 2009, 06:01 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Interesting that this subject should come up now, have been having some email contact with a Forum member over another matter, and the comment was passed about the apparent lack of replies to their posts. Are we becoming too apathetic, or is it just a lack of interest in other members collecting field? Personally I find the "other" interests a great learning experience. In my opinion it can become very boring if one only concentrates on their ones items, and not take an interest in what others collect. Jim--You could maybe answer to one of the observations made, as I don't know the answer. Does the view count only include members, or does it also include "outside surfers"? If this IS the case, it may explain why the number of views way exceeds the replies. Regards Stuart

25th June 2009, 01:13 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	This is an interesting point. Now obviously there are different 'layers' to the posts and threads on this site, there are the academic study of the high end pieces, which is great and for many of us it's nice to dream.... But then there are also the 'masses' myself included who range from those literally just starting out, general collectors, people who want information on a 'single piece' etc... Speaking for myself, if I post a picture of a new item I've acquired, I want lots of comments! Yes I hope that amongst the replys someone like Jim will post, as his posts are always overflowing with facts, ideas, and enthusiasm for the field. But I do also realise that we can't always expect the scholarly members to reply in every thread and although I consider those members to be the 'cornerstones' of the site, I'd like to think that the rest of 'us' are the mortar that holds it all together. Collecting shouldn't be a solitary pursuit, sharing a find with ones friends is an important part of it for me. I for one, am far happier to get a few short replys to a post from my friends on these forums congratulating me for adding to my collection in these hard times, than when I post and see hundreds of views and nobody bothers to even say 'nice find mate'. By the same token, I hope that when I can't add anything more than my enthusiasm and congratulations to a thread but still want to show solidarity with one of you, I hope you are not offended or thinking 'spam'. IMHO there are no bad posts that are well intentioned. The only sad thing is seeing a '0' under replies. Regards Gene

25th June 2009, 04:47 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	Excellent responses here guys! As always I thank you all for the kindnesses toward my efforts, and recognizing the very deep passion I do have for the study of arms. It has been a lifelong passion that long exceeded my once concurrent passion for collecting. I only gave up the collecting in response to profound life events changing the means required to continue the hobby, not my interest in it. As I mentioned, it is wonderful that all of you so openly share your latest conquests and items in your collections, and I am able to vicariously enjoy them as well as continuing my research, which in kind, I enjoy sharing here. It is wonderful to see the beautifully crafted responses that you have posted here Vandoo, Fearn, Khanjar and Fearn (I know your real names, but use pen names for the benefit of the readers), and these are well thought out and worded, distinctly reflecting your own styles of writing and your distinct personalities. Your comments are all well placed, and have genuinely brought to my attention perspective I honestly had not thought of, and very much liked Atlantia's analogy of cornerstones and mortar! I agree that there are many variations to degree of response afforded to various posts, and often in proportion to each individuals familiarity or interest in a piece shared. That is well understood, and I admit that myself I often defer comment on the many topics I have limited resources or knowledge on, a broad range indeed, but honestly try to find something to say by searching as much as I can that I might try to say something. As noted, I find it very sad to see a post standing with 0 responses. What always impresses me is that there is indeed a great deal of solidarity here, and it is always a pleasure to see such gentlemanly behaviour even in the presence of obvious disagreement. I do admire the fact that everyone does come in with even kind comments that are 'brief' but complimentary when a new acquisition is posted. What I am saying is addressed to the many readers out there who are clearly present in considerable numbers and that thier input is welcomed.Despite the amount and depth of knowledge being imparted in these threads, it does not diminish the inclusion of the same kind of pleasant comment noted or well placed questions by newcomers or readers. We know you are out there, and we want to know what you think or what questions you might have. As I have always emphasized, it is how we all learn..together! We share thoughts , ideas, questions, and observations without reservation. I would again emphasize my deep gratitude to everyone here who does participate, and in whatever degree, and always admire the contributions in text from which I honestly believe we have all learned a great deal. With reference to the excellent analogy of cornerstones, and mortar....not forgetting the solidarity of the stones, I believe we all stand together as a sort of venerable bastion for the advancement of the study of historic arms and armour. Thank you again everyone! All very best regards, Jim

25th June 2009, 06:19 PM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

25th June 2009, 07:14 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking, British arms historian and collector), that he would always find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object". "Arms and Armour Study in Edwardian Britain" Sid Blair and Michael Lacy, 1999 Excellent points Norman, and this is definitely a point of contention commonly faced here, as the weapons acquired and in private collections are typically the basis for our discussions. As I have noted, the gentlemanly demeanor here is certainly in most cases of highest caliber with regard to comments placed on another members weapons. In most cases where a piece is clearly a 'commercial' (trade or souk type souvenier) it is often hard to comment without the hard truth. In these instances I think the members here typically handle the matter deftly and with courtesy. I think that we have all learned through the years through the academy of hard knocks, and most of it bear the scars of proof....in a sense I suppose we might consider this a kind of collectors 'patination' . I believe strongly that the most important weapon an arms collector can possess is knowledge, and to never become complacent, never stop learning. This is the very reason why we are here, and why we all do what we do. I was once told in my job, in which quick judgement calls were the 'order of the day', to make the call as best as you could with details at hand...if you were right ,it would strengthen your proficiency; if you were wrong, a lesson would be learned, and you would become even stronger. Naturally, in degree these 'calls' would vary with circumstances, but in most these ideas would apply. A collector is by nature often impulsive, and sometimes an opportunity may be lost if action is not taken, but the more well versed they are in knowing the items they are considering, the less chance of the dreaded sting of error. I would consider that those selling or trading arms that seek correct and accurate information to properly represent and describe those they intend to sell as prudent individuals. There is a profound difference in the laughable descriptions often with items for sale which are designed to deceive, and the typically more conservative captions which reflect true lack of knowledge. I would only ask that those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward, and channel queries accordingly. All best regards, Jim

25th June 2009, 07:28 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Quote, " I would only ask those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward and channel queries accordingly." End Quote. Hi Jim, The straightforward solutions are often the best. My Regards, Norman.

25th June 2009, 06:11 PM	#9
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi, This is indeed an interesting and sometime difficult subject. As diverse as the subjects on the Forum so it is with the Members who participate, some may feel comfortable with one kind of approach whilst others do not. The dilemma of being really interested but judging whether to risk putting ones big foot in it while on the other hand not wanting to appear disinterested can be problematic, well, for me at least! Not all members have the same 'drive' or ambitions for their collections and it is important to include the curious as well as the enthusiast. I really feel for members, and it is normally newer ones, who, after putting out their hard earned cash, and it is really hard earned for some these days, on a piece find to their dismay that the 'gold' they have dug up is in actual fact 'mud'. I do think on these occasions that a 'diplomatic' and courteous let down is an absolute positive in getting these newer members to 'post and answer' in future and not to be left intimidated by their confusion or lack of knowledge, we all have lack of knowledge in many other spheres. This 'ignorance' can be the root of an unwillingness to reply to posts but is not to be confused with the 'ignorant', a situation which unfortunately a good member thought himself the subject of recently, re ignore list. I do not know of any members on this Forum who are disposed to be dismissive with regard to others ' buying mistakes' and lack of knowledge, we've all been there, in actual fact I have seen several very tactful let downs and corrections but I have seen the opposite on many other forums, sometimes it is the little green god at work, and it doesn't take too long for a clique to form and ruin it for others. I think proactive tolerance, courtesy and a willingness to illuminate, which I must say is very evident on this Forum and certainly lacking in some others, will go a long way in encouraging the less knowledgeable members, and I include myself in that merry band, joining in discussions. I sincerely hope that no Member will take any of the foregoing personally as this is not my intention it is simply observations I have made when comparing similar forums. My Regards, Norman.