What is Wesi Malelo?

Greybeard · 16th June 2009, 05:32 AM

Hi Ganjawulung, hi Lemmythesmith

Many thanks for the info/pictures which I highly appreciate. I do learn a lot here. This is a really great forum with great members!

Regards,

Heinz

ganjawulung · 16th June 2009, 05:45 PM

This is more picture of 'iron stones' that probably contained iron ore at Subandi's besalen in eastern Surakarta.

GANJAWULUNG (Guangzhou, June 16, 2009)

Greybeard · 17th June 2009, 05:35 AM

Many thanks for the picture, Ganjawulung! The stones look interesting.

Regards, Heinz

ganjawulung · 19th June 2009, 03:07 AM

Ok Dear Heinz,

I tried quite a couple of times to portrait the "glittering" or "sparkling" effect of the blade that you probably meant to. But I don't think I can show you the good photo of it.

These two blades -- one (supposed to be) Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula, and one keris of dhapur "gumbeng" (quite similar to "kebo lajer" but not to thick) -- also supposed to be a Pajajaran gumbeng, with "sparkling" or "crystaline" grains in the blade...

GANJAWULUNG

Greybeard · 19th June 2009, 07:31 AM

Dear Ganjawulung

Thank you very much for taking the time and making the effort to portray wesi malelo. It`s difficult to describe the "glittering/sparkling" effect by word and it`s not easy to illustrate this by photos as well. One must have seen it on the object in hand! But the pictures you posted are very informative to me, and they are much appreciated!

Wesi malelo is a fascinating but rather confusing matter, and much of the knowledge of it seems to be lost in the past ...

You show a Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula. That`s interesting as my keris in question is attributed to Cirebon. What`s the period of tangguh Cirebon (16th century?).

Best regards,

Heinz

ganjawulung · 21st June 2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

...You show a Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula. That`s interesting as my keris in question is attributed to Cirebon. What`s the period of tangguh Cirebon (16th century?).

Dear Heinz,
Cirebon era was 15th century to 16th century. The first keraton was named as Pakungwati Nagara -- built by Rakean Walang Sungsang son of Pajajaran King, Siliwangi in 1452.

It was then the first Islamic kingdom in Java (Walang Sungsang then became Pangeran Cakrabuana, the first king of Pakungwati Cirebon), and it had good relation with Demak Sultanate -- then Islamic kingdom too. Cirebon and Demak had fought openly with the fading Majapahit kingdom in 1489. Trowulan, the capital of Majapahit was occupied by this coalition of powers.

In the meantime, Cirebon also fought with their parent's kingdom of Pajajaran. To strengthen the power, Pajajaran kingdom cooperated with foreign power, Purtuguese which harboured in Malacca. Hindhu Pajajaran kingdom then made a coalition treaty with Portuguese in 1522 (Batutulis Treaty, 1522) to fight the growing Islamic kingdoms in the north-coastal area of Jawa... But Pajajaran was vanished by the Islamic powers from the coastal kingdom in Jawa.

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 21st June 2009, 05:58 AM

Pak Ganja, I wonder if you could clarify something for me.

You advise that Cirebon was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa.

Can you quote your reference for this information?

Prof. Dr. Slamet Muljana seems to think that Demak was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa,and that the Islamic Kingdom Cirebon was established with the assistance of forces from Demak. In fact, prior to reading your post, my readings of other sources all seemed to confirm this.Agreed that Cirebon did exist prior to the establishment of an Islamic Kingdom at that place, and agreed that Islam had a presence in the area of Cirebon prior to the kingdom being established. However, first sultan of Cirebon was Sunan Gunung Jati who died in 1570.

Raden Patah was responsible for the construction of the Mesjid Agung Demak, and according to the chronogram at Lawang Bledheg, that mosque already existed in 1466.

Your advice that Cirebon preceded Demak as an Islamic kingdom is quite surprising. Is this new information due to recent discoveries of which I am unaware?

Your references would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

16th June 2009, 05:45 PM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Iron stone This is more picture of 'iron stones' that probably contained iron ore at Subandi's besalen in eastern Surakarta. GANJAWULUNG (Guangzhou, June 16, 2009) Attached Images

19th June 2009, 03:07 AM	#4
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Sparkling? Ok Dear Heinz, I tried quite a couple of times to portrait the "glittering" or "sparkling" effect of the blade that you probably meant to. But I don't think I can show you the good photo of it. These two blades -- one (supposed to be) Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula, and one keris of dhapur "gumbeng" (quite similar to "kebo lajer" but not to thick) -- also supposed to be a Pajajaran gumbeng, with "sparkling" or "crystaline" grains in the blade... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

16th June 2009, 05:32 AM	#1
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Hi Ganjawulung, hi Lemmythesmith Many thanks for the info/pictures which I highly appreciate. I do learn a lot here. This is a really great forum with great members! Regards, Heinz

17th June 2009, 05:35 AM	#3
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Many thanks for the picture, Ganjawulung! The stones look interesting. Regards, Heinz

19th June 2009, 07:31 AM	#5
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Dear Ganjawulung Thank you very much for taking the time and making the effort to portray wesi malelo. It`s difficult to describe the "glittering/sparkling" effect by word and it`s not easy to illustrate this by photos as well. One must have seen it on the object in hand! But the pictures you posted are very informative to me, and they are much appreciated! Wesi malelo is a fascinating but rather confusing matter, and much of the knowledge of it seems to be lost in the past ... You show a Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula. That`s interesting as my keris in question is attributed to Cirebon. What`s the period of tangguh Cirebon (16th century?). Best regards, Heinz

21st June 2009, 05:58 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Pak Ganja, I wonder if you could clarify something for me. You advise that Cirebon was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa. Can you quote your reference for this information? Prof. Dr. Slamet Muljana seems to think that Demak was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa,and that the Islamic Kingdom Cirebon was established with the assistance of forces from Demak. In fact, prior to reading your post, my readings of other sources all seemed to confirm this.Agreed that Cirebon did exist prior to the establishment of an Islamic Kingdom at that place, and agreed that Islam had a presence in the area of Cirebon prior to the kingdom being established. However, first sultan of Cirebon was Sunan Gunung Jati who died in 1570. Raden Patah was responsible for the construction of the Mesjid Agung Demak, and according to the chronogram at Lawang Bledheg, that mosque already existed in 1466. Your advice that Cirebon preceded Demak as an Islamic kingdom is quite surprising. Is this new information due to recent discoveries of which I am unaware? Your references would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.