Rare 15th and 16th Century Ball Molds

Matchlock · 14th June 2009, 02:59 PM

That is exactly the point - long, unintermitted tradition in then less developed countries.

m

ward · 14th June 2009, 04:04 PM

Yes but, when looking at pieces in our own collections or buying from most sources, it is always best to be cautious in attributing pieces to the earliest date a style was in vogue. That is one of the nice things about documented pieces out of excavated sites, you can get real dates for these specific items. It is nice to see that some of your pieces are locally excavated so that factual dating can be attained.

Matchlock · 14th June 2009, 04:08 PM

Agreed, absolutely.

m

Matchlock · 19th May 2014, 05:17 PM

They are all in my collection.

First of all, as I am not a native English speaker:

The general English term is bullet mold, but on thother hand, there is the expression powder and ball.
So, when speaking of bullet molds for muzzleloading guns - should they not be called ball molds, consequently?

Attachments, from top:

- the only known Late Gothic ball mold for haquebuts, ca. 1480-1500, and actually an impressive tool!

- contemporary illustration of such a mold, the handles shaped exactly as they are on my piece, from:
Codex icon. 222, fol. 35v, by Jörg Kölderer, 1595-1515.

- one of the oldest known South German ball molds, to which I cannot assign any closer range of dating than ca. 1460-1540; the dyadic mold of brass, and struck with a maker's mark, a Gothic symbol; the handles of wrought iron, and with swamped globular finials - shaped exactly like the long trigger bars on contemporary matchlock arquebuses from the 1st half of the 16th century!

- 2 images of the lock and trigger bar of my Straubing arquebus of ca. 1540 attached

Some detached brass molds of similar type are recorded, mostly with their iron handles missing - see attachments to post #1.
They seem to have continued being made for a very long period of time, and almost unaltered, especially in Eastern Europe, and in the 500 year-old traditional Early Renaissance German style. The sample in my collection, however, is the only recorded specimen to be truck with a mark in the German Gothic style.
A very similar founder's mark is on the cast brass/bronze barrel of ca. 1490, of my earliest Landsknecht matchlock arquebus of ca. 1520!
A close-up photo of the maker's mark on the barrel of that important piece is attached to the folllowing post!

Please note that the scale is in centimeters, as I live in Bavaria, where the metric system is sort of compulsory ...

Best, Michael

Matchlock · 19th May 2014, 06:02 PM

Attachments, following:

- one of the oldest known South German ball molds, which I cannot assign to any closer range of dating than ca. 1460-1540; the dyadic mold of brass, and struck with a maker's mark, a Gothic symbol; the handles of wrought iron, and with swamped globular finials - shaped exactly like the long trigger bars on contemporary matchlock arquebuses from the 1st half of the 16th century!

- 2 images of the lock and trigger bar of my Straubing arquebus of ca. 1540 attached

Some detached brass molds of similar type are recorded, mostly with their iron handles missing - see attachments to post #1.
They seem to have continued being made for a very long period of time, and almost unaltered, especially in Eastern Europe, and in the 500 year-old traditional Early Renaissance German style. The sample in my collection, to which I cannot assign any closer range of dating than ca. 1460-1540, however, is the only recorded specimen to be struck with a mark in the German Gothic style.
A very similar founder's mark is on the cast brass/bronze barrel of ca. 1490, re-used with my earliest Landsknecht matchlock arquebus of ca. 1520:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18532

A detail of the maker's mark on the barrel of that important piece is attached to the folllowing post!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 29th August 2014, 07:33 PM

More on my rarest early-16th century ball molds.

From all we may conclude from contemporary, and dated, historic sources of illustration, and the very few known actually existing objects, earliest ball molds consisted of two separate halves, and very soon must have been attached by a pin-and-hole system.
Up to at least ca. 1410, they were made of limestone, which got replaced by cast brass from maybe the mid 15th century.
From ca. 1480, the first molds were equipped with wrought-iron handles, uniting the two brass halves for founding balls.
The oldest samples obviously showed two thin iron fingers, each of them attached to a loop cast integrally with the actual mold halves. The latter varied from rectangular and oval to round shapes.
From the late 15th century, the latter seem to have started being made of wrought iron throughout, their older rectangular form still refecting the Late Gothic Medieval taste of style.
The author's thesis is that at least by ca. 1500, the influence of the age of Renaissance lead to oval and rounded mold shapes, equal to the round forms barrels were taking at the turn of the century, and the dawning of the Early Modern Age.

Attachments to follow.

All objects illustrated in this thread, and published by the author, are preserved in
The Michael Trömner Collection
except noted otherwise.

Best,
Michael Trömner

Shakethetrees · 30th August 2014, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

They are all in my collection.

First of all, as I am not a native English speaker:

The general English term is bullet mold, but on thother hand, there is the expression powder and ball.
So, when speaking of bullet molds for muzzleloading guns - should they not be called ball molds, consequently?

Attachments, from top:

- the only known Late Gothic ball mold for haquebuts, ca. 1480-1500, and actually an impressive tool!

- contemporary illustration of such a mold, the handles shaped exactly as they are on my piece, from:
Codex icon. 222, fol. 35v, by Jörg Kölderer, 1595-1515.

- one of the oldest known South German ball molds, to which I cannot assign any closer range of dating than ca. 1460-1540; the dyadic mold of brass, and struck with a maker's mark, a Gothic symbol; the handles of wrought iron, and with swamped globular finials - shaped exactly like the long trigger bars on contemporary matchlock arquebuses from the 1st half of the 16th century!

- 2 images of the lock and trigger bar of my Straubing arquebus of ca. 1540 attached

Some detached brass molds of similar type are recorded, mostly with their iron handles missing - see attachments to post #1.
They seem to have continued being made for a very long period of time, and almost unaltered, especially in Eastern Europe, and in the 500 year-old traditional Early Renaissance German style. The sample in my collection, however, is the only recorded specimen to be truck with a mark in the German Gothic style.
A very similar founder's mark is on the cast brass/bronze barrel of ca. 1490, of my earliest Landsknecht matchlock arquebus of ca. 1520!
A close-up photo of the maker's mark on the barrel of that important piece is attached to the folllowing post!

Please note that the scale is in centimeters, as I live in Bavaria, where the metric system is sort of compulsory ...

Best, Michael

Michael,

With all due respect, the tool illustrated in the codex is a pair of pincers, used to remove sprues and flashings from balls after they have been removed from the mold. The jaws are open sided, and would not work as a receptacle for molten metal!

The curled handle is similar to the curled triggers you mention, except that this feature is commonly found on old handmade tongs, pliers, ball molds and other similarly constructed tools. I have several in my shop.

I am a master metal smith with over thirty years experience in the field of antique metal restoration, and a number of commissioned pieces as well. Over the years I have collected (accumulated?) a lot of old tools, some coming from Northern Germany directly from the family who used them since the eighteenth century or possibly earlier!

I also consult with several auction houses locally, as well as numerous museums and historic houses in my area on a wide variety of topics.

I have, a long time ago, made movie props for movies filmed in the area until I realized that whenever you get the contract to provide anything for a movie, your entire life is taken over by the production.

I don't mention this in order to blow my own horn, as the saying goes, but, as somewhat of a newcomer who just yesterday got a PM informing me that my membership status in this forum has finally been removed from probation.

I just want to let everyone know a little about me.

I believe this is a factor of tool evolution that has carried across the entire spectrum of two piece blacksmith-made, pivoting tools.

Thank you all for making this one of the most interesting groups like this that I have ever found!

Shakethetrees · 30th August 2014, 04:44 AM

...and I almost forgot:

I really like your molds, two in particular: the cast, vase form and the thin wrought brass piece brazed to the iron handles!

If I had any of the very early arms like you have, they would fit very comfortably in my collection!

Matchlock · 30th August 2014, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

Michael,

With all due respect, the tool illustrated in the codex is a pair of pincers ...

Which tool are you talking about?
Please copy, mark, and post one of my images, just to make sure we're on the same page, and track!

Best,
Michael

Shakethetrees · 30th August 2014, 11:40 PM

Michael,

This is the one I mentioned earlier.

19th May 2014, 05:17 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The Earliest Known Bullet/Ball Molds, ca. 1480-1600 They are all in my collection. First of all, as I am not a native English speaker: The general English term is bullet mold, but on thother hand, there is the expression powder and ball. So, when speaking of bullet molds for muzzleloading guns - should they not be called *ball* molds, consequently? Attachments, from top: - the only known Late Gothic ball mold for haquebuts, ca. 1480-1500, and actually an impressive tool! - contemporary illustration of such a mold, the handles shaped exactly as they are on my piece, from: Codex icon. 222, fol. 35v, by Jörg Kölderer, 1595-1515. - one of the oldest known South German ball molds, to which I cannot assign any closer range of dating than ca. 1460-1540; the dyadic mold of brass, and struck with a maker's mark, a Gothic symbol; the handles of wrought iron, and with swamped globular finials - shaped exactly like the long trigger bars on contemporary matchlock arquebuses from the 1st half of the 16th century! - 2 images of the lock and trigger bar of my Straubing arquebus of ca. 1540 attached Some detached brass molds of similar type are recorded, mostly with their iron handles missing - see attachments to post #1. They seem to have continued being made for a very long period of time, and almost unaltered, especially in Eastern Europe, and in the 500 year-old traditional Early Renaissance German style. The sample in my collection, however, is the only recorded specimen to be truck with a mark in the German Gothic style. A very similar founder's mark is on the cast brass/bronze barrel of ca. 1490, of my earliest Landsknecht matchlock arquebus of ca. 1520! A close-up photo of the maker's mark on the barrel of that important piece is attached to the folllowing post! Please note that the scale is in centimeters, as I live in Bavaria, where the metric system is sort of compulsory ... Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 19th May 2014 at 07:32 PM.

19th May 2014, 06:02 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Attachments, following: - one of the oldest known South German ball molds, which I cannot assign to any closer range of dating than ca. 1460-1540; the dyadic mold of brass, and struck with a maker's mark, a Gothic symbol; the handles of wrought iron, and with swamped globular finials - shaped exactly like the long trigger bars on contemporary matchlock arquebuses from the 1st half of the 16th century! - 2 images of the lock and trigger bar of my Straubing arquebus of ca. 1540 attached Some detached brass molds of similar type are recorded, mostly with their iron handles missing - see attachments to post #1. They seem to have continued being made for a very long period of time, and almost unaltered, especially in Eastern Europe, and in the 500 year-old traditional Early Renaissance German style. The sample in my collection, to which I cannot assign any closer range of dating than ca. 1460-1540, however, is the only recorded specimen to be struck with a mark in the German Gothic style. A very similar founder's mark is on the cast brass/bronze barrel of ca. 1490, re-used with my earliest Landsknecht matchlock arquebus of ca. 1520: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18532 A detail of the maker's mark on the barrel of that important piece is attached to the folllowing post! Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 20th May 2014 at 02:22 AM.

29th August 2014, 07:33 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	More on my rarest early-16th century ball molds. From all we may conclude from contemporary, and dated, historic sources of illustration, and the very few known actually existing objects, earliest ball molds consisted of two separate halves, and very soon must have been attached by a pin-and-hole system. Up to at least ca. 1410, they were made of limestone, which got replaced by cast brass from maybe the mid 15th century. From ca. 1480, the first molds were equipped with wrought-iron handles, uniting the two brass halves for founding balls. The oldest samples obviously showed two thin iron fingers, each of them attached to a loop cast integrally with the actual mold halves. The latter varied from rectangular and oval to round shapes. From the late 15th century, the latter seem to have started being made of wrought iron throughout, their older rectangular form still refecting the Late Gothic Medieval taste of style. The author's thesis is that at least by ca. 1500, the influence of the age of Renaissance lead to oval and rounded mold shapes, equal to the round forms barrels were taking at the turn of the century, and the dawning of the Early Modern Age. Attachments to follow. All objects illustrated in this thread, and published by the author, are preserved in The Michael Trömner Collection except noted otherwise. Best, Michael Trömner Last edited by Matchlock; 29th August 2014 at 07:44 PM.

30th August 2014, 11:40 PM	#10
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	Michael, This is the one I mentioned earlier. Attached Images

14th June 2009, 02:59 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	That is exactly the point - long, unintermitted tradition in then less developed countries. m

14th June 2009, 04:04 PM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Yes but, when looking at pieces in our own collections or buying from most sources, it is always best to be cautious in attributing pieces to the earliest date a style was in vogue. That is one of the nice things about documented pieces out of excavated sites, you can get real dates for these specific items. It is nice to see that some of your pieces are locally excavated so that factual dating can be attained.

14th June 2009, 04:08 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Agreed, absolutely. m

30th August 2014, 04:44 AM	#8
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	...and I almost forgot: I really like your molds, two in particular: the cast, vase form and the thin wrought brass piece brazed to the iron handles! If I had any of the very early arms like you have, they would fit very comfortably in my collection!