Rare 15th and 16th Century Ball Molds

Matchlock · 9th June 2009, 04:48 PM

An early Renaissance small mold, ca. 1530-1550, for balls of 13 mm diameter for a harquebus or a pistol.

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Matchlock · 9th June 2009, 04:53 PM

A fine cast copper alloy ten ball mold retaining its original polished wooden grips, for haquebuts, caliber 24.5 mm, ca. 1500.

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ward · 13th June 2009, 04:07 PM

I would have some difficulty with some of the dating of these objects unless you had some provenance or the items were found with associated dated pieces. Other cultures in the world used realitively identical items much later is history. I have included some items I have in my collection,I would be hard pressed to date any of mine to the 16th century. The stone one came out of small town in tefrout, morocco, the gang mould came out of afghanistan and the single bullet mould came out of albania. They all could have been traded to these areas but in these cases I feel it is unlikely.

Matchlock · 13th June 2009, 04:52 PM

Hi Ward,

Please let me say thanks for posting these highly interesting pieces!

I fully agree with you: There are lots of instances, from Indian matchlock muskets, flintknapping combination tools (see attachments) to ball molds in which North European Late Gothic and Early Renaissance influences and decorative styles have been adopted and copied in oriental regions at some later date. Had we not additional information as to finds and provenance, it would in many cases almost be impossible to make a correct attribution.

For instance, your fine gang mould shows exactly the style of North Italian and German Early Reniassance decorative pattern as does a small barrel scourer in my collection which I date to the first half of the 16th century and which was excavated nearby where I live in Bavaria a few years ago - see attachments.

It's really hard to tell, I have to admit.

This, I feel, could, thanks to your attribution, kick off a highly interesting intercultural discussion on stylistc similarities across all boundaries.

Thank you once more.

Best,

Michael

ward · 13th June 2009, 10:16 PM

Yes that would be a interesting discussion. My knowledge of European items is admittedly much weaker than my Indo Persian studies, but I find out new things all the time. As you are well aware, besides the copied pieces, many European countries dumped older arms and armor on less developed countries. Also it is possible that a particular form of piece came over into that country in the 16th century but that form may become permanent into the late 19th-20th century because of a sense of tradition or because of ease of manufacture. This is not as prevelent in European arms.

Matchlock · 14th June 2009, 02:59 PM

That is exactly the point - long, unintermitted tradition in then less developed countries.

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ward · 14th June 2009, 04:04 PM

Yes but, when looking at pieces in our own collections or buying from most sources, it is always best to be cautious in attributing pieces to the earliest date a style was in vogue. That is one of the nice things about documented pieces out of excavated sites, you can get real dates for these specific items. It is nice to see that some of your pieces are locally excavated so that factual dating can be attained.

9th June 2009, 04:48 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	An early Renaissance small mold, ca. 1530-1550, for balls of 13 mm diameter for a harquebus or a pistol. m Attached Images

9th June 2009, 04:53 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A fine cast copper alloy ten ball mold retaining its original polished wooden grips, for haquebuts, caliber 24.5 mm, ca. 1500. m Attached Images

13th June 2009, 04:07 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I would have some difficulty with some of the dating of these objects unless you had some provenance or the items were found with associated dated pieces. Other cultures in the world used realitively identical items much later is history. I have included some items I have in my collection,I would be hard pressed to date any of mine to the 16th century. The stone one came out of small town in tefrout, morocco, the gang mould came out of afghanistan and the single bullet mould came out of albania. They all could have been traded to these areas but in these cases I feel it is unlikely. Attached Images

13th June 2009, 04:52 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Ward, Please let me say thanks for posting these highly interesting pieces! I fully agree with you: There are lots of instances, from Indian matchlock muskets, flintknapping combination tools (see attachments) to ball molds in which North European Late Gothic and Early Renaissance influences and decorative styles have been adopted and copied in oriental regions at some later date. Had we not additional information as to finds and provenance, it would in many cases almost be impossible to make a correct attribution. For instance, your fine gang mould shows exactly the style of North Italian and German Early Reniassance decorative pattern as does a small barrel scourer in my collection which I date to the first half of the 16th century and which was excavated nearby where I live in Bavaria a few years ago - see attachments. It's really hard to tell, I have to admit. This, I feel, could, thanks to your attribution, kick off a highly interesting intercultural discussion on stylistc similarities across all boundaries. Thank you once more. Best, Michael Attached Images

13th June 2009, 10:16 PM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Yes that would be a interesting discussion. My knowledge of European items is admittedly much weaker than my Indo Persian studies, but I find out new things all the time. As you are well aware, besides the copied pieces, many European countries dumped older arms and armor on less developed countries. Also it is possible that a particular form of piece came over into that country in the 16th century but that form may become permanent into the late 19th-20th century because of a sense of tradition or because of ease of manufacture. This is not as prevelent in European arms.

14th June 2009, 02:59 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	That is exactly the point - long, unintermitted tradition in then less developed countries. m

14th June 2009, 04:04 PM	#7
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Yes but, when looking at pieces in our own collections or buying from most sources, it is always best to be cautious in attributing pieces to the earliest date a style was in vogue. That is one of the nice things about documented pieces out of excavated sites, you can get real dates for these specific items. It is nice to see that some of your pieces are locally excavated so that factual dating can be attained.