SAJEN kerises

ganjawulung · 25th May 2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

At that time Gardner had been in Malaya for 20 years.

A reading of this article indicates Gardner is using these two terms based upon what he had learnt from Malay informants.

So, it would seem to be probable that the term "keris Majapahit" is not a European invention at all, but rather a term that was in common usage in Malaya during the first quarter of the the 20th century.

I do agree with you on this, Alan. It is not a European invention, although Europeans who popularized that name in the past.

I have a bit different feeling on javanese names and naming in keris world. Especially those vehement javanese names. Not totally useless. The naming of keris' details, for instance 'greneng', 'sekar kacang' (peanut flower), 'lambe gajah' (elephant lips), 'ri pandan' (pandanus' thorn), 'wadidang', 'gandhik', or specific description on luk types such as 'sarpa lumaku' (moving snake), 'sarpa nglangi' (swimming snake), or types of pamor such as 'beras wutah' (abundance of rice, as a symbol of prosperity), or 'blarak sineret' (depicting motive, like dragged coconut leaves?)... I don't think that those namings had changed from time to time in the past.

Those naming, exactly matched with javanese daily life who like natural symbols. Reflected precisely the daily life of agricultural and also coastal javanese. Also, the naming of other keris details such as 'sirah' cecak (lizard's head), or 'buntut urang' (tail of crayfish), or types of 'buntut urang' such as 'nguceng mati' (dead fish, uceng = is a name of certain kind of fish).

But yes, many disputable names also. Such as, names of certain 'dhapurs' or model of kerises. Sometimes new names from time to time.

On "keris Majapahit" and "Jawa Demam". I think both names are not typical javanese namings. As analogy, in Jakarta or any other places in Indonesia except Padang (West Sumatra), many people offer "nasi padang" (rice of Padang), or "restoran Padang" (Padang Restaurant). But you will never find a "Padang Restaurant" in Padang, instead of "Ampera Restaurant", or "Ampera Rice" there. Or you will find many "Java Rijsttaffel" Restaurants in many cities of the world, but not in Java.

"Keris Majapahit", perhaps had a conotation of 'inferiorating Majapahit', as did "Jawa Demam" (Javanese shivering with fever...).

Unfortunately, I can't express clearly in English about all of this...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 25th May 2009, 11:11 PM

Yes, I believe I understand your line of thought on this matter, Pak Ganja.

You won't find any Siamese cats in Thailand either --- up there, they are Chinese cats.

So, yes, Keris Majapahit was not a name that originated in Jawa, it originated outside Jawa.Not from a European source, but more probably from a Malay source.

The thing to keep in mind with keris naming is that those names do not mean what they might seem to mean.Nothing is ever what we are led to believe it is.

drdavid · 26th May 2009, 10:00 AM

I am probably not contributing much to the discussion but I was reading Groneman last night, he notes (pge 175) that these pieces were known as "keris budda" (sic). So in the late 1890s that was the name given to them by the local people he was speaking with. This is rather different to the item we sometimes call keris buda. I do remember ganjawulung that you explained on a previous thread about the meaning of buda

Quote:

There is a kind of sense of uncertainty in the word of "budo" or "buda". Maybe you may "translate" it as "very old" or "once upon a time"

So maybe any old unusual shaped keris could be called keris buda

drd

A. G. Maisey · 26th May 2009, 11:18 AM

It is very true that the meaning of words can and does change as time passes.

During the 17th and 18th century in England the word "occupy" was considered to be so vulgar that its utterance in a public place would get you time in the stocks.

So perhaps in Groneman's time the keris form that we now term "sajen", or "majapahit", was indeed named a "keris buda". However, the use of the term "keris buda" in the present time refers to a keris of a particular form that is from the buda period of Jawa, and that particular form excludes the keris sajen.

In the generally accepted sense, the "buda period" is the time prior to Islam, and does not mean purely the time when the Buddhist faith was dominant in a particular area of Jawa, but rather is a term applying to olden times before Islam.

In this day and age I have never encountered any confusion as the keris form that we term a "keris buda". The term has nothing to do with the unusual nature of a form, nor of any unique qualities of a form, it refers to a short, robust keris form with a square tang and a metuk, very often without pamor.

When we discuss the keris we sometimes do lose sight of the universal human tendency to vary the meaning of words, beliefs, customs, and traditions over time. This note of Groneman's would seem to me to be a wake-up call.

HiFi · 26th May 2009, 09:43 PM

Only small additional information and not meaning anything, in Jogjakarta area, some people called the deder-iras keris as putut, maybe caused of the figure of the iron hilt presented like a prayer, or a human with hand position like pray. In this area, if we find this keris, better asking keris putut than asking keris sajen

Besides we known that putut also named for other form condition.

Rick · 27th May 2009, 05:37 PM

Any truth to the story that these were often buried near crops to assure good harvest ??

ganjawulung · 29th May 2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiFi

... in Jogjakarta area, some people called the deder-iras keris as putut, maybe caused of the figure of the iron hilt presented like a prayer, or a human with hand position like pray. In this area, if we find this keris, better asking keris putut than asking keris sajen

Besides we known that putut also named for other form condition.

HiFi, no wonder. Even there are three words in javanese, that bear the same meaning of "keris". You may use the word "keris" as a general naming. Or more polite, you may use too "wangkingan", or "duwung" exactly for the same meaning...

Putut? Yes, you are right. In Jakarta too, keris people sometimes mentioned it as "keris putut" too, if I want to accentuate on the hilt ornament. And you may say, "keris sajen" too for general naming... But dhapur putut, that's different thing. Also dhapur of "putut kembar" (twin putut, one in the gandhik, and the other in the wadidang)...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2009, 12:17 AM

Pak Ganja, if I may, I would like to comment upon the words for "keris", in the Javanese language.

The word "wangkingan" is the respect level of high Javanese (krama inggil) and is not the equivalent of "keris". As it has been explained to me, wangkingan can only be used when we refer to a keris that is being worn, will be worn, or has been worn, as an item of dress, by another person to whom we wish to display respect. It would be incorrect to refer to a non-active keris, or a display keris, or our own keris, or a keris in a lower hierarchical relationship as a "wangkingan".

The word "dhuwung" is high level Javanese (krama) and is a direct equivalent of "keris", but the use of this word depends upon the hierarchical relationship of the keris, or the custodian of the keris, to the speaker, thus the word cannot be used in just any situation.

Then there are the words "curiga" and "kadga", both classical Javanese and applicable in a literary context.

Please forgive me for this extension of your own post, Pak Ganja.The Javanese language is your own, and I cannot even speak Javanese with any competancy, although I can read it well enough and follow a conversation conducted in ngoko. Thus, my purpose in these comments is not to try to teach you your own language, but rather to clarify for those people who do not understand the intricacies of the Javanese language, the obstacles and difficulties in using words from that language when those words are taken out of their proper context. It would be a little silly if we all started to indiscriminately use "dhuwung", and "wangkingan", as substitutes for "keris".

ganjawulung · 28th May 2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdavid

I am probably not contributing much to the discussion but I was reading Groneman last night, he notes (pge 175) that these pieces were known as "keris budda" (sic). So in the late 1890s that was the name given to them by the local people he was speaking with. This is rather different to the item we sometimes call keris buda. I do remember ganjawulung that you explained on a previous thread about the meaning of buda

So maybe any old unusual shaped keris could be called keris buda

drd

I tend to agree with Alan, that "buda" term could mean "pre-Islam". So, based on this premis, you may roughly outline the chronological history of Indonesia (not in linear timeline) as follows:

Sriwijaya (3rd century - 14th century)
Syailendra Dynasty (8th century - 832)
Sanjaya Dynasty and Hindhu Kingdom of Ancient Mataram (752-1042)
Kediri (1045-1221)
The Spread of Islam (1200-1600)
Singasari (1222-1292)
Empire of Majapahit (1293-1500)
Malacca Sultanate (1400-1511)
Aceh Sultanate
Sultanate of Demak (1475-1518)
Mataram (Islamic) Sultanate (1500s-1700s)
Dutch East Indies (1602-1945)

On "keris buda" as dr D just mentioned, it should be accepted as "keris products of pre-Islamic period". So, just products of era before Singasari kingdom... That was mainly Ancient Mataram kingdom in Central Java (with kings such as Rakai Pikatan, Rakai Panangkaran, Rakai Pananggalan etc). Of course, still have no valid evidence until now...

"Buda" word, doesn't relate to Buddha or Buddhist. But just a rough colloquial term of "very old", or "before Islamic era" in Java...

That is just my one cent speculation...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 28th May 2009, 10:54 AM

And I tend to agree with you, Pak Ganja.

However, I would raise one possibly pedantic point.

The keris form that we refer to as "keris buda" is a Javanese keris form, thus, the buda period in Jawa is the period that we should apply to definition of this form.

You have listed historical eras for Indonesia, which I agree is a valid way for a modern Indonesian to regard the history of Indonesia, however, we are dealing with Jawa, and in Jawa, during the period under discussion, the other islands and kingdoms that now comprise the modern nation of Indonesia were other countries, just as foriegn to a person living in the Land of Jawa as were all those places situated outside the Land of Jawa.

So, although Islam may have gained a foothold as early as the 11th century in places that we now regard as parts of Indonesia, evidence of Islam in Jawa does not occur until the 14th century, and Islam did gain dominance in Jawa until the end of the 16th century.

Let us accept for the purpose of this discussion, that the appearance of Islam in Java, rather than the dominance of Islam in Jawa, sets the upper parameter for the era we refer to as the buda period.

Let us further accept that the East Javanese gravestones that date to 1369 are valid evidence that Islam was present in Jawa at that time.

Let us be exceedingly generous and postulate that Islam first appeared one generation prior to the date of those gravestones. This will give a commencement date for Islam in Jawa of sometime during the first half of the 14th century, ie, 1300 to 1350.

That places the buda era as prior to 1300 as the most likely possible date for its demise.

As you note, Singasari commenced in about 1222.

I believe that 1222 is too early a date upon which to close the buda era.

I believe 1300 is the lowest possible date that we can use, and my personal preference is for a somewhat later date, perhaps somewhere well into the 1400's.

25th May 2009, 11:11 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes, I believe I understand your line of thought on this matter, Pak Ganja. You won't find any Siamese cats in Thailand either --- up there, they are Chinese cats. So, yes, Keris Majapahit was not a name that originated in Jawa, it originated outside Jawa.Not from a European source, but more probably from a Malay source. The thing to keep in mind with keris naming is that those names do not mean what they might seem to mean.Nothing is ever what we are led to believe it is.

26th May 2009, 11:18 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	It is very true that the meaning of words can and does change as time passes. During the 17th and 18th century in England the word "occupy" was considered to be so vulgar that its utterance in a public place would get you time in the stocks. So perhaps in Groneman's time the keris form that we now term "sajen", or "majapahit", was indeed named a "keris buda". However, the use of the term "keris buda" in the present time refers to a keris of a particular form that is from the buda period of Jawa, and that particular form excludes the keris sajen. In the generally accepted sense, the "buda period" is the time prior to Islam, and does not mean purely the time when the Buddhist faith was dominant in a particular area of Jawa, but rather is a term applying to olden times before Islam. In this day and age I have never encountered any confusion as the keris form that we term a "keris buda". The term has nothing to do with the unusual nature of a form, nor of any unique qualities of a form, it refers to a short, robust keris form with a square tang and a metuk, very often without pamor. When we discuss the keris we sometimes do lose sight of the universal human tendency to vary the meaning of words, beliefs, customs, and traditions over time. This note of Groneman's would seem to me to be a wake-up call.

26th May 2009, 09:43 PM	#5
HiFi Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 11	Only small additional information and not meaning anything, in Jogjakarta area, some people called the deder-iras keris as putut, maybe caused of the figure of the iron hilt presented like a prayer, or a human with hand position like pray. In this area, if we find this keris, better asking keris putut than asking keris sajen Besides we known that putut also named for other form condition.

27th May 2009, 05:37 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Any truth to the story that these were often buried near crops to assure good harvest ??

30th May 2009, 12:17 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Pak Ganja, if I may, I would like to comment upon the words for "keris", in the Javanese language. The word "wangkingan" is the respect level of high Javanese (krama inggil) and is not the equivalent of "keris". As it has been explained to me, wangkingan can only be used when we refer to a keris that is being worn, will be worn, or has been worn, as an item of dress, by another person to whom we wish to display respect. It would be incorrect to refer to a non-active keris, or a display keris, or our own keris, or a keris in a lower hierarchical relationship as a "wangkingan". The word "dhuwung" is high level Javanese (krama) and is a direct equivalent of "keris", but the use of this word depends upon the hierarchical relationship of the keris, or the custodian of the keris, to the speaker, thus the word cannot be used in just any situation. Then there are the words "curiga" and "kadga", both classical Javanese and applicable in a literary context. Please forgive me for this extension of your own post, Pak Ganja.The Javanese language is your own, and I cannot even speak Javanese with any competancy, although I can read it well enough and follow a conversation conducted in ngoko. Thus, my purpose in these comments is not to try to teach you your own language, but rather to clarify for those people who do not understand the intricacies of the Javanese language, the obstacles and difficulties in using words from that language when those words are taken out of their proper context. It would be a little silly if we all started to indiscriminately use "dhuwung", and "wangkingan", as substitutes for "keris".

28th May 2009, 10:54 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	And I tend to agree with you, Pak Ganja. However, I would raise one possibly pedantic point. The keris form that we refer to as "keris buda" is a Javanese keris form, thus, the buda period in Jawa is the period that we should apply to definition of this form. You have listed historical eras for Indonesia, which I agree is a valid way for a modern Indonesian to regard the history of Indonesia, however, we are dealing with Jawa, and in Jawa, during the period under discussion, the other islands and kingdoms that now comprise the modern nation of Indonesia were other countries, just as foriegn to a person living in the Land of Jawa as were all those places situated outside the Land of Jawa. So, although Islam may have gained a foothold as early as the 11th century in places that we now regard as parts of Indonesia, evidence of Islam in Jawa does not occur until the 14th century, and Islam did gain dominance in Jawa until the end of the 16th century. Let us accept for the purpose of this discussion, that the appearance of Islam in Java, rather than the dominance of Islam in Jawa, sets the upper parameter for the era we refer to as the buda period. Let us further accept that the East Javanese gravestones that date to 1369 are valid evidence that Islam was present in Jawa at that time. Let us be exceedingly generous and postulate that Islam first appeared one generation prior to the date of those gravestones. This will give a commencement date for Islam in Jawa of sometime during the first half of the 14th century, ie, 1300 to 1350. That places the buda era as prior to 1300 as the most likely possible date for its demise. As you note, Singasari commenced in about 1222. I believe that 1222 is too early a date upon which to close the buda era. I believe 1300 is the lowest possible date that we can use, and my personal preference is for a somewhat later date, perhaps somewhere well into the 1400's.