Formosa Hill Tribe Swords ( for Yuanzhumin )

KuKulzA28 · 23rd May 2009, 05:41 PM

I know this forum is not as interested in contemporary ethnographic weaponry in comparison to antiques... but I found a vendor of many of the Copper-Gate village Fan Dao or Shan Dao (I've heard them called either one byt my relatives). The Hualien Taroko knife-makers, especially in Copper-Gate all seem to be relatives. I'm currently in Taiwan right now visiting family, but I'll be sure to stop by Hualien to satiate ethnographic/heritage weaponry interests.

I'm sure Yuanzhumin could tell you more about these.
He's native and I'm American-born. He's a specialist, and I'm an aficionado.
Plus I'm illiterate in Mandarin and can barely speak Taiwanese.

But for anyone who's interested, here's some websites:
>> http://www.001.com.tw/yahoo/TM-knife/yahoo.htm <<
http://www.001.com.tw/house/stoneland-house/2-2.htm
http://blog.taroko.gov.tw/myblog/jjy...RpdHlJRD0xMjY=
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/yan9436/a...v=751&next=640
http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2008/...day-north1.htm
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!k87nOF.TREbqgMV2roAH/article?mid=3273
http://www.kpps.tyc.edu.tw/worker1/worker.htm
http://tour-hualien.hl.gov.tw/index....18&SceneId=467
http://librarywork.taiwanschoolnet.o...travel/t04.htm
http://www.ogsppg.com.tw/tour_data.asp?hidID=1977

Lee · 23rd May 2009, 11:53 PM

I am much chagrined to admit that I have missed this entire thread previously. Thanks Ian for posting my knife and thanks Yuanzhumin for identifying its origin. And thanks Tim for pointing out the fine Formosa Tribal website to which I have also taken the liberty of posting a link from the main EAA page. And thanks Kukukza28 for bringing this thread back up top.

KuKulzA28 · 6th June 2009, 03:28 PM

I believe this is a modern made Atayal type blade. It was used for fighting (and headhunting), survival out in the wilderness, etc. It’s a good solid blade, legit ferrule/bolster(?), rattan handle, thick spine, gently curved blade, single bevel, open sheath, and has a good feeling. I got it from the Tung-men (Copper-gate) folks at Hua-lien. I also visited the Atayal museum at Wu-lai. It was very interesting. I was a bit surprised to find that many Yuan Zhu Min are pro-KMT as opposed to DPP - somewhat ironic... but let's leave politics aside. I learned quite a bit today. They had a good collection of blades and spears.

KuKulzA28 · 10th August 2009, 07:48 PM

Research Update:

Aside from the Aboriginal smiths at 銅門, Hualien I have also discovered that there are a few others in Taiwan. One is in 新店 (Shing-dian) and another in 桃園大溪 (DaSi, Tao-yuan).... maybe one in San-xhia. The one is DaSi may be Hakka but seems to have been making Atayal blades for the tribesmen for some time now. Today they use spring steel and nails to make blades and arrowheads (and fishing spears). Seems like there's a very limited amount of hunting still going on... and that the blades are not illegal, but not entirely legal.. obviously if they were illegal, the mainly Chinese 開山刀 users would be screwed. The 開山刀 are usually hook-shaped, like bill-hooks, almost like a S.Indian aruvaal. They are the Chinese version of machetes. Some Japanese soqi are used too. It seems the aboriginal blades are of better quality and preferable for survival, forestry, and mountaineering work. That is not to say all the Chinese hook-machetes are terrible, in fact there are some good quality ones out there.

The Atayal's machete-sword is called a laraw (lah-rao, rhymes with cow). Their smaller utility knives are called puli (boo-LEE).

Hualian's smiths apparently make blades for all the tribes and tourists as well, but the blade-makers I found out about above seem to only make for Atayal. I'll see if I can gather more information on other groups' blades.

I know these aren't antiques that I am digging up, but the state of today's aboriginal cultures of Taiwan and their handicrafts, including weaponry, still lives on, though barely in some cases. However, there are still some quality blades being made and used, though not for headhunting. There doesn't seem to be much interest but I'll keep posting up my research for those who are.

Emanuel · 10th August 2009, 08:49 PM

Thanks for great info Kukulza. Rest assured there is interest in this culture and its blades. I just think few of us are in the position to add anything meaningful.

Emanuel

Tim Simmons · 10th August 2009, 09:04 PM

Yes great interest. I might add that Nicolas is now the owner of the example I had.

KuKulzA28 · 10th August 2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Thanks for great info Kukulza. Rest assured there is interest in this culture and its blades. I just think few of us are in the position to add anything meaningful.

Emanuel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Yes great interest. I might add that Nicolas is now the owner of the example I had.

Thanks for the encouragement. Like I said, I'll post more when I've found out more...

Lucky Nicholas, authentic Taiwanese aboriginal pieces are rare, I hope he treasures it forever... if not he should hit me up with a message

hahaha, but I have no doubt he will

23rd May 2009, 11:53 PM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	Thanks I am much chagrined to admit that I have missed this entire thread previously. Thanks Ian for posting my knife and thanks Yuanzhumin for identifying its origin. And thanks Tim for pointing out the fine Formosa Tribal website to which I have also taken the liberty of posting a link from the main EAA page. And thanks Kukukza28 for bringing this thread back up top. Last edited by Lee; 23rd May 2009 at 11:54 PM.

23rd May 2009, 05:41 PM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I know this forum is not as interested in contemporary ethnographic weaponry in comparison to antiques... but I found a vendor of many of the Copper-Gate village Fan Dao or Shan Dao (I've heard them called either one byt my relatives). The Hualien Taroko knife-makers, especially in Copper-Gate all seem to be relatives. I'm currently in Taiwan right now visiting family, but I'll be sure to stop by Hualien to satiate ethnographic/heritage weaponry interests. I'm sure Yuanzhumin could tell you more about these. He's native and I'm American-born. He's a specialist, and I'm an aficionado. Plus I'm illiterate in Mandarin and can barely speak Taiwanese. But for anyone who's interested, here's some websites: >> http://www.001.com.tw/yahoo/TM-knife/yahoo.htm << http://www.001.com.tw/house/stoneland-house/2-2.htm http://blog.taroko.gov.tw/myblog/jjy...RpdHlJRD0xMjY= http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/yan9436/a...v=751&next=640 http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2008/...day-north1.htm http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!k87nOF.TREbqgMV2roAH/article?mid=3273 http://www.kpps.tyc.edu.tw/worker1/worker.htm http://tour-hualien.hl.gov.tw/index....18&SceneId=467 http://librarywork.taiwanschoolnet.o...travel/t04.htm http://www.ogsppg.com.tw/tour_data.asp?hidID=1977

6th June 2009, 03:28 PM	#3
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I believe this is a modern made Atayal type blade. It was used for fighting (and headhunting), survival out in the wilderness, etc. It’s a good solid blade, legit ferrule/bolster(?), rattan handle, thick spine, gently curved blade, single bevel, open sheath, and has a good feeling. I got it from the Tung-men (Copper-gate) folks at Hua-lien. I also visited the Atayal museum at Wu-lai. It was very interesting. I was a bit surprised to find that many Yuan Zhu Min are pro-KMT as opposed to DPP - somewhat ironic... but let's leave politics aside. I learned quite a bit today. They had a good collection of blades and spears.

10th August 2009, 07:48 PM	#4
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Research Update: Aside from the Aboriginal smiths at 銅門, Hualien I have also discovered that there are a few others in Taiwan. One is in 新店 (Shing-dian) and another in 桃園大溪 (DaSi, Tao-yuan).... maybe one in San-xhia. The one is DaSi may be Hakka but seems to have been making Atayal blades for the tribesmen for some time now. Today they use spring steel and nails to make blades and arrowheads (and fishing spears). Seems like there's a very limited amount of hunting still going on... and that the blades are not illegal, but not entirely legal.. obviously if they were illegal, the mainly Chinese 開山刀 users would be screwed. The 開山刀 are usually hook-shaped, like bill-hooks, almost like a S.Indian aruvaal. They are the Chinese version of machetes. Some Japanese soqi are used too. It seems the aboriginal blades are of better quality and preferable for survival, forestry, and mountaineering work. That is not to say all the Chinese hook-machetes are terrible, in fact there are some good quality ones out there. The Atayal's machete-sword is called a laraw (lah-rao, rhymes with cow). Their smaller utility knives are called puli (boo-LEE). Hualian's smiths apparently make blades for all the tribes and tourists as well, but the blade-makers I found out about above seem to only make for Atayal. I'll see if I can gather more information on other groups' blades. I know these aren't antiques that I am digging up, but the state of today's aboriginal cultures of Taiwan and their handicrafts, including weaponry, still lives on, though barely in some cases. However, there are still some quality blades being made and used, though not for headhunting. There doesn't seem to be much interest but I'll keep posting up my research for those who are.

10th August 2009, 08:49 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thanks for great info Kukulza. Rest assured there is interest in this culture and its blades. I just think few of us are in the position to add anything meaningful. Emanuel

10th August 2009, 09:04 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Yes great interest. I might add that Nicolas is now the owner of the example I had.