SAJEN kerises

ganjawulung · 21st May 2009, 11:02 AM

What a beautiful "iron ancestor", Alan. I agree with what you wrote in your site. I think it is more objective than any other comment on what you mentioned as "iron ancestor". I agree too with David van Duuren's naming this old things as "antique javanese amulet kerises" -- this is more elegant than naming them as "majapahit kerises" (a peiorative naming of javanese kerises)...

I think, now is the archeological turn. I hope someday there will be one of them, to research on old inscription in Central Java such as Prasasti Rukam (Rukam Inscription) dated back in 829 Saka or 907 M which had mentioned about tools of iron such as:

"...wsi-wsi prakara, wadung, rimwas, patuk-patuk, lukai, tampilan, linggis, tatah. wangkiul, kris, gulumi, kurumbahgi, pamajba, kampi, dom.... (... all things made of iron, such as axe etc....)

Or other inscriptions of 9th century such as Karang Tengah Inscription, and Poh Inscription, that mentioned... people at time had known kres (although, not certain yet whether this 'kres' form was asymetric like kerises or not...).

Or on Kedu inscription (dated back 750 M) that mentioned... King of Syailendra dynasty had ordered someone to make kerises for him.... (This still need to be researched further).

Anyway, still there are many 'keris puzzles' to question...

Thanks a lot, Alan,

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2009, 12:02 PM

Pak Ganja, you know, and I know, that an immense amount of rubbish has been written about all types of keris.

This "keris Majapahit" nonsense is just one of those pieces of rubbish. However, I feel that when the term originated it may have been thoughtless, unintentional rubbish. The possibility is that the early Europeans who met this keris form recognised it as an early form, and at the same time recognised Majapahit as an early era, and simply matched the two as a matter of providing easy terminology. The real nonsense came later, when others picked up on the term and accepted it as reality.

Then, of course, the dealers in Indonesia started to use the term, and before we knew where we were everybody and his brother was confusing Keris Mojo, with Tangguh Mojo --- and on and on and on.

I think that at the present time most people with any serious interest in the keris understand that "Keris Majapahit" is just a name that means nothing.

As to the interpretation of words in the old inscriptions, and no less in the old literary works, I doubt that we will ever have a satisfactory conclusion to any of the facets of that problem. When people like Zoetmulder and Robson cannot come up with precise answers, I doubt that anybody can. You mention archeology, but I don't think that this is a problem for archaeology, I think it is a problem for the linguists and anthropologists. It would be wonderful if we could find an early Classical Period piece of stone junkmail, complete with illustrations, advertising a sale of superceded teweks and tuhuks, with the first ten buyers receiving a gift of a complimentary kres --- but I somehow don't think that we're going to come across that bit of advertising material.

This mystery of early names is really only a matter of curiosity, in any case. We do have the evidence graven in stone of the Early Classical period existence of something that we would call a keris. We have plenty of evidence of the continued existence of this something right throughout history. There is no doubt at all that the cake did exist from very early times. To know what early Javanese people may have called it would only be the icing on that cake.

What is in my opinion, much more important is the understanding of what the keris was to those early people, and the understanding of the development of its nature through to the present day.

Henk · 21st May 2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This "keris Majapahit" nonsense is just one of those pieces of rubbish. However, I feel that when the term originated it may have been thoughtless, unintentional rubbish. The possibility is that the early Europeans who met this keris form recognised it as an early form, and at the same time recognised Majapahit as an early era, and simply matched the two as a matter of providing easy terminology. The real nonsense came later, when others picked up on the term and accepted it as reality.

What is in my opinion, much more important is the understanding of what the keris was to those early people, and the understanding of the development of its nature through to the present day.

Alan,

I completely agree with you on both opinions.
The "keris Majapahit" nonsense is an European and most probably Dutch finding. Connecting the keris sajen to the Majapahit period as being very very old. What's more simple than using the name keris majapahit instead of keris sajen and unfortunately it is still done by the crowd.

Sajen · 21st May 2009, 02:19 PM

Two great collections of keris sajen!
sajen

ganjawulung · 23rd May 2009, 04:50 AM

Size comparison between Yogyakartan keris, medium size and smaller size of "keris sajen"...

A. G. Maisey · 23rd May 2009, 10:41 AM

In my post of 21st. May I theorised that Europeans originated the name "keris Majaphit"

I now believe that I was incorrect in this proposition..

G.B. Gardner's "Keris and Other Malay Weapons" was first published in 1936. Gardner sourced his information on keris from contact with Malay people during the time he was stationed in British Malaya. In his 1936 publication he mentions the "keris Majapahit", and that place is probably where most European usage of the term is grounded.

However, in 1933 Gardner published an article in the Journal of Malay Branch of Royal Asiatic Society :- " Notes on Two Uncommon Varieties of Malay Keris". The two keris were the Keris Majapahit, and the keris picit.

At that time Gardner had been in Malaya for 20 years.

A reading of this article indicates Gardner is using these two terms based upon what he had learnt from Malay informants.

So, it would seem to be probable that the term "keris Majapahit" is not a European invention at all, but rather a term that was in common usage in Malaya during the first quarter of the the 20th century.

ganjawulung · 25th May 2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

At that time Gardner had been in Malaya for 20 years.

A reading of this article indicates Gardner is using these two terms based upon what he had learnt from Malay informants.

So, it would seem to be probable that the term "keris Majapahit" is not a European invention at all, but rather a term that was in common usage in Malaya during the first quarter of the the 20th century.

I do agree with you on this, Alan. It is not a European invention, although Europeans who popularized that name in the past.

I have a bit different feeling on javanese names and naming in keris world. Especially those vehement javanese names. Not totally useless. The naming of keris' details, for instance 'greneng', 'sekar kacang' (peanut flower), 'lambe gajah' (elephant lips), 'ri pandan' (pandanus' thorn), 'wadidang', 'gandhik', or specific description on luk types such as 'sarpa lumaku' (moving snake), 'sarpa nglangi' (swimming snake), or types of pamor such as 'beras wutah' (abundance of rice, as a symbol of prosperity), or 'blarak sineret' (depicting motive, like dragged coconut leaves?)... I don't think that those namings had changed from time to time in the past.

Those naming, exactly matched with javanese daily life who like natural symbols. Reflected precisely the daily life of agricultural and also coastal javanese. Also, the naming of other keris details such as 'sirah' cecak (lizard's head), or 'buntut urang' (tail of crayfish), or types of 'buntut urang' such as 'nguceng mati' (dead fish, uceng = is a name of certain kind of fish).

But yes, many disputable names also. Such as, names of certain 'dhapurs' or model of kerises. Sometimes new names from time to time.

On "keris Majapahit" and "Jawa Demam". I think both names are not typical javanese namings. As analogy, in Jakarta or any other places in Indonesia except Padang (West Sumatra), many people offer "nasi padang" (rice of Padang), or "restoran Padang" (Padang Restaurant). But you will never find a "Padang Restaurant" in Padang, instead of "Ampera Restaurant", or "Ampera Rice" there. Or you will find many "Java Rijsttaffel" Restaurants in many cities of the world, but not in Java.

"Keris Majapahit", perhaps had a conotation of 'inferiorating Majapahit', as did "Jawa Demam" (Javanese shivering with fever...).

Unfortunately, I can't express clearly in English about all of this...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung · 31st May 2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

G.B. Gardner's "Keris and Other Malay Weapons" was first published in 1936. Gardner sourced his information on keris from contact with Malay people during the time he was stationed in British Malaya. In his 1936 publication he mentions the "keris Majapahit", and that place is probably where most European usage of the term is grounded.

However, in 1933 Gardner published an article in the Journal of Malay Branch of Royal Asiatic Society :- " Notes on Two Uncommon Varieties of Malay Keris". The two keris were the Keris Majapahit, and the keris picit.

At that time Gardner had been in Malaya for 20 years.

A reading of this article indicates Gardner is using these two terms based upon what he had learnt from Malay informants.

So, it would seem to be probable that the term "keris Majapahit" is not a European invention at all, but rather a term that was in common usage in Malaya during the first quarter of the the 20th century.

Dear Alan,
Let me try to elaborate further on this "keris majapahit" topic again. Not only GB Gardner did mention this type of keris as "the earliest form of keris that probably originated from Majapahit era". But also other writers in that same book, such as GC Woolley (1938), AH Hill (1956) and also Abu Bakar bin Pawanchee (1947). Most of them had quoted much the famous book of Thomas Stamford Raffles', The History of Java (1817).

This Raffles' book, (now the Indonesian translation is published in Yogyakarta) of course it is a great book. One of among a few pioneers on documenting the javanese past trace, although some of the information -- especially on keris -- was told in "legend version"...

As you know, the Jamaican born Raffles was then the Lieutenant Governor of Java, during British government in East Indies on 1811-1816. He then moved to Sumatera -- building a second greatest fort in Asia Pasific for Britain until 1823... Died in the year of 1826.

British government ruled Java in only less than 6 years in East Indies (then Indonesia) -- compared to the Dutch which ruled Java since 1602, interupted 6 years by the British and then continued the Dutch rule after 1816, until 1943... But this short British government brought much documentation on Indonesia. Of course, it was "another version" of Dutch documentation on Java in the past.

GANJAWULUNG

21st May 2009, 11:02 AM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Iron ancestor What a beautiful "iron ancestor", Alan. I agree with what you wrote in your site. I think it is more objective than any other comment on what you mentioned as "iron ancestor". I agree too with David van Duuren's naming this old things as "antique javanese amulet kerises" -- this is more elegant than naming them as "majapahit kerises" (a peiorative naming of javanese kerises)... I think, now is the archeological turn. I hope someday there will be one of them, to research on old inscription in Central Java such as Prasasti Rukam (Rukam Inscription) dated back in 829 Saka or 907 M which had mentioned about tools of iron such as: "...wsi-wsi prakara, wadung, rimwas, patuk-patuk, lukai, tampilan, linggis, tatah. wangkiul, kris, gulumi, kurumbahgi, pamajba, kampi, dom.... (... all things made of iron, such as axe etc....) Or other inscriptions of 9th century such as Karang Tengah Inscription, and Poh Inscription, that mentioned... people at time had known kres (although, not certain yet whether this 'kres' form was asymetric like kerises or not...). Or on Kedu inscription (dated back 750 M) that mentioned... King of Syailendra dynasty had ordered someone to make kerises for him.... (This still need to be researched further). Anyway, still there are many 'keris puzzles' to question... Thanks a lot, Alan, GANJAWULUNG Last edited by ganjawulung; 21st May 2009 at 03:23 PM.

23rd May 2009, 04:50 AM	#5
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Size Comparison Size comparison between Yogyakartan keris, medium size and smaller size of "keris sajen"... Attached Images

21st May 2009, 12:02 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Pak Ganja, you know, and I know, that an immense amount of rubbish has been written about all types of keris. This "keris Majapahit" nonsense is just one of those pieces of rubbish. However, I feel that when the term originated it may have been thoughtless, unintentional rubbish. The possibility is that the early Europeans who met this keris form recognised it as an early form, and at the same time recognised Majapahit as an early era, and simply matched the two as a matter of providing easy terminology. The real nonsense came later, when others picked up on the term and accepted it as reality. Then, of course, the dealers in Indonesia started to use the term, and before we knew where we were everybody and his brother was confusing Keris Mojo, with Tangguh Mojo --- and on and on and on. I think that at the present time most people with any serious interest in the keris understand that "Keris Majapahit" is just a name that means nothing. As to the interpretation of words in the old inscriptions, and no less in the old literary works, I doubt that we will ever have a satisfactory conclusion to any of the facets of that problem. When people like Zoetmulder and Robson cannot come up with precise answers, I doubt that anybody can. You mention archeology, but I don't think that this is a problem for archaeology, I think it is a problem for the linguists and anthropologists. It would be wonderful if we could find an early Classical Period piece of stone junkmail, complete with illustrations, advertising a sale of superceded teweks and tuhuks, with the first ten buyers receiving a gift of a complimentary kres --- but I somehow don't think that we're going to come across that bit of advertising material. This mystery of early names is really only a matter of curiosity, in any case. We do have the evidence graven in stone of the Early Classical period existence of something that we would call a keris. We have plenty of evidence of the continued existence of this something right throughout history. There is no doubt at all that the cake did exist from very early times. To know what early Javanese people may have called it would only be the icing on that cake. What is in my opinion, much more important is the understanding of what the keris was to those early people, and the understanding of the development of its nature through to the present day.

21st May 2009, 02:19 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Two great collections of keris sajen! sajen

23rd May 2009, 10:41 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	In my post of 21st. May I theorised that Europeans originated the name "keris Majaphit" I now believe that I was incorrect in this proposition.. G.B. Gardner's "Keris and Other Malay Weapons" was first published in 1936. Gardner sourced his information on keris from contact with Malay people during the time he was stationed in British Malaya. In his 1936 publication he mentions the "keris Majapahit", and that place is probably where most European usage of the term is grounded. However, in 1933 Gardner published an article in the Journal of Malay Branch of Royal Asiatic Society :- " Notes on Two Uncommon Varieties of Malay Keris". The two keris were the Keris Majapahit, and the keris picit. At that time Gardner had been in Malaya for 20 years. A reading of this article indicates Gardner is using these two terms based upon what he had learnt from Malay informants. So, it would seem to be probable that the term "keris Majapahit" is not a European invention at all, but rather a term that was in common usage in Malaya during the first quarter of the the 20th century.