Help with blade of possible european Make

Ronin 47 · 19th May 2009, 11:37 PM

I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help.

Jim McDougall · 20th May 2009, 04:39 PM

[QUOTE=Ronin 47]I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help.[/QUOTE

Hi Austin,
Actually, if you like the sword, and since you have already acquired it, it really doesnt matter what you payed. If you were selling the sword there may be obvious concern. Since you have noted you know little on Arabian swords, your purchase of this one, as well as your desire to learn more on it indicates you clearly developing an interest in them. This is a good thing, as by sharing your weapon here we all benefit by learning more on them.

Obviously the matter of price is a matter of extremely subjective opinion, and without going through professionals, you may expect a wide array of answers.
Thank you for observing our protocol concerning valuations by specifying PM use on this.

I will say, in my opinion, this seems a relatively unusual Bedouin sa'if with what appears, as Ward has assessed, a European blade of probably 18th century, with 19th century mounts.

All best regards,
Jim

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st February 2012, 09:26 AM

Salaams all ~Bump for this interesting thread please.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd February 2012, 10:43 AM

Salaams all ~ The scabbard has a line of Arabic in the last decorated rectangle which may be a clue. To me this looks like a Red Sea variant with either a badly worn or faked decoration to a blade I can't quite fathom . The hilt looks possibly bedouin possibly Hadramaut even Hyderabadi and possibly an Omani adoption. I suggest inclusion in the Ethnographic side. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Jim McDougall · 23rd February 2012, 01:46 PM

This is an interesting sword which as Ibrahiim has suggested is of a style of Arabian preference characteristic of Hadhramaut and Yemen. The scabbard which includes the distinct 'aghrab' at the throat is of the type that according to Elgood were produced in Hyderabad for these regions.
The blade seems of 19th century European style and the unusual coloration reminds me of galvanized metal, which has worn through in the rusty areas. The stylized decoration is copied from much earlier European blades using the sword holding arm from a cloud, sun and moon with faces ,popular in many Eastern European blades from 18th century. Many of these earlier blades were purported to be Hungarian, but were likely from either Caucasian or Styrian sources.

The sword itself overall seems to be a relatively modern composite, revising my previous assessment on the blade, which in retrospect does not seem 18th century as the spurious decoration had suggested.

fernando · 23rd February 2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

... I suggest inclusion in the Ethnographic side. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Done

19th May 2009, 11:37 PM	#1
Ronin 47 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 16	I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help. Last edited by Ronin 47; 19th May 2009 at 11:50 PM.

20th May 2009, 04:39 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,661	[QUOTE=Ronin 47]I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help.[/QUOTE Hi Austin, Actually, if you like the sword, and since you have already acquired it, it really doesnt matter what you payed. If you were selling the sword there may be obvious concern. Since you have noted you know little on Arabian swords, your purchase of this one, as well as your desire to learn more on it indicates you clearly developing an interest in them. This is a good thing, as by sharing your weapon here we all benefit by learning more on them. Obviously the matter of price is a matter of extremely subjective opinion, and without going through professionals, you may expect a wide array of answers. Thank you for observing our protocol concerning valuations by specifying PM use on this. I will say, in my opinion, this seems a relatively unusual Bedouin sa'if with what appears, as Ward has assessed, a European blade of probably 18th century, with 19th century mounts. All best regards, Jim

21st February 2012, 09:26 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all ~Bump for this interesting thread please. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

23rd February 2012, 10:43 AM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all ~ The scabbard has a line of Arabic in the last decorated rectangle which may be a clue. To me this looks like a Red Sea variant with either a badly worn or faked decoration to a blade I can't quite fathom . The hilt looks possibly bedouin possibly Hadramaut even Hyderabadi and possibly an Omani adoption. I suggest inclusion in the Ethnographic side. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

23rd February 2012, 01:46 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,661	This is an interesting sword which as Ibrahiim has suggested is of a style of Arabian preference characteristic of Hadhramaut and Yemen. The scabbard which includes the distinct 'aghrab' at the throat is of the type that according to Elgood were produced in Hyderabad for these regions. The blade seems of 19th century European style and the unusual coloration reminds me of galvanized metal, which has worn through in the rusty areas. The stylized decoration is copied from much earlier European blades using the sword holding arm from a cloud, sun and moon with faces ,popular in many Eastern European blades from 18th century. Many of these earlier blades were purported to be Hungarian, but were likely from either Caucasian or Styrian sources. The sword itself overall seems to be a relatively modern composite, revising my previous assessment on the blade, which in retrospect does not seem 18th century as the spurious decoration had suggested.