Zaghnal

Jim McDougall · 17th May 2009, 05:34 PM

Hello Anandalal,
Excellent summary of the entries in these resources!
Over many years in discussions here we have discovered that the semantics and transliterations of many descriptive terms for many weapons have resulted in considerable confusion in properly identifying them. In most cases we have resorted to using the commonly used terms found in most of the references used by collectors.
While that brings some relief in carrying out discussions on these forms, I think it is still important to catalog and note these various terms, as often these variations in terminology can reveal important details concerning the development and use of the weapon form.
It seems that 'zaghnal' is more the typically applied term collectively for these dagger axes (while crows bill or beak is more a colloquial term used in various local parlance). It is unclear on the term 'hoolurge' as to whether that refers to the zaghnal or a variation of the weapon (possibly as to whether another blade or hammer type poll, or with/without spike).
The interesting term 'buckie' seems another colloquially applied local reference, as far as I know only seen in Egerton.

These 'zaghnal' seem to have very ancient history, and I personally believe they developed from the Chinese dagger axe.

In discussions here we have also discussed the small version of these in the form of the 'pickaxe' type weapons of certain tribes in Khyber regions known as the 'lohar' (also found in Stone). These are similar in concept and it seems that hamstringing was mentioned in discussions of use of these, although there was a great deal of concern over whether these somewhat diminutive dagger axe type weapons were viable as weapons at all.
While uncertain on the hamstring use, these would seem effective at penetrating turbans, and I think these did have a sharpened edge so the hamstring idea may have some degree of application.

Actually I think the hamstring use of these weapons had never seemed of gret issue previously, as there was more focus on the armor and helmet piercing use, and it is maddening to have included that comment without having referenced it, which I deeply regret.

I do not have access to the Nicolle reference either....frustrating! It is among the many references I do not have with me presently in the bookmobile (RV we are travelling in, 2 years now, and presently in Ozark Mountains with lousy computer signal!).

We'll keep looking,
All the best,
Jim

17th May 2009, 05:34 PM	#14
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hello Anandalal, Excellent summary of the entries in these resources! Over many years in discussions here we have discovered that the semantics and transliterations of many descriptive terms for many weapons have resulted in considerable confusion in properly identifying them. In most cases we have resorted to using the commonly used terms found in most of the references used by collectors. While that brings some relief in carrying out discussions on these forms, I think it is still important to catalog and note these various terms, as often these variations in terminology can reveal important details concerning the development and use of the weapon form. It seems that 'zaghnal' is more the typically applied term collectively for these dagger axes (while crows bill or beak is more a colloquial term used in various local parlance). It is unclear on the term 'hoolurge' as to whether that refers to the zaghnal or a variation of the weapon (possibly as to whether another blade or hammer type poll, or with/without spike). The interesting term 'buckie' seems another colloquially applied local reference, as far as I know only seen in Egerton. These 'zaghnal' seem to have very ancient history, and I personally believe they developed from the Chinese dagger axe. In discussions here we have also discussed the small version of these in the form of the 'pickaxe' type weapons of certain tribes in Khyber regions known as the 'lohar' (also found in Stone). These are similar in concept and it seems that hamstringing was mentioned in discussions of use of these, although there was a great deal of concern over whether these somewhat diminutive dagger axe type weapons were viable as weapons at all. While uncertain on the hamstring use, these would seem effective at penetrating turbans, and I think these did have a sharpened edge so the hamstring idea may have some degree of application. Actually I think the hamstring use of these weapons had never seemed of gret issue previously, as there was more focus on the armor and helmet piercing use, and it is maddening to have included that comment without having referenced it, which I deeply regret. I do not have access to the Nicolle reference either....frustrating! It is among the many references I do not have with me presently in the bookmobile (RV we are travelling in, 2 years now, and presently in Ozark Mountains with lousy computer signal!). We'll keep looking, All the best, Jim