Zaghnal

[Anandalal N.]

Dear Jim,

Thank you for your valuable comments and clarifications and in particular the reference vis-à-vis my skills in persuasion. In fact, that is only the initial approach in my usual repertoire failing which the Zaghnal in question may have been brought into the fray.

I have delayed in responding since I have been agonizing over the source of the comment regarding the hamstringing. I have also been looking at the question of Hoolurge and Zaghnal.

The distinction is not clear in Egerton who illustrates three arms of this type. The first called a Zaghnol is from the Ain-I-Akbari.

The second is item 471 called Crow-bill or “Buckie”.

The third is item 716 called a Crow-bill or Hoolurge and has many features in common with the one under discussion.

Stone on the other hand makes a distinction between the two. He refers to Hoolurge as an axe with a thin, curved knifelike blade, of Northern and Central India. He does not illustrate it but refers to Egerton 472 and 716. Egerton item 472 is not illustrated.

Under Zaghnal; Stone states that it is an axe with one or two heavy curved knifelike blades of India and refers to Kaemmerer XXXIX. I wonder if anyone has access to Kaemmerer and could provide this information?

So as far as Stone is concerned the distinction appears to be that the Hoolurge has a single, thin blade while the Zaghnal has one or two heavy blades.

The question is does the word ‘thin’ refer to the width or the thickness of the blade? If the distinction lies in the blade being thin as in reduced thickness of the blade; that would be difficult to observe in the illustrations which are in profile.

There has indeed been much variation in these arms as Stone (Figure 874) illustrates. Note that item 5 there is referred to as one with a thin blade but still called a Hoolurge.

I do not have the Nicolle reference.

Hope this is useful.

Best Regards.

[Jim McDougall]

Hello Anandalal,
Excellent summary of the entries in these resources!
Over many years in discussions here we have discovered that the semantics and transliterations of many descriptive terms for many weapons have resulted in considerable confusion in properly identifying them. In most cases we have resorted to using the commonly used terms found in most of the references used by collectors.
While that brings some relief in carrying out discussions on these forms, I think it is still important to catalog and note these various terms, as often these variations in terminology can reveal important details concerning the development and use of the weapon form.
It seems that 'zaghnal' is more the typically applied term collectively for these dagger axes (while crows bill or beak is more a colloquial term used in various local parlance). It is unclear on the term 'hoolurge' as to whether that refers to the zaghnal or a variation of the weapon (possibly as to whether another blade or hammer type poll, or with/without spike).
The interesting term 'buckie' seems another colloquially applied local reference, as far as I know only seen in Egerton.

These 'zaghnal' seem to have very ancient history, and I personally believe they developed from the Chinese dagger axe.

In discussions here we have also discussed the small version of these in the form of the 'pickaxe' type weapons of certain tribes in Khyber regions known as the 'lohar' (also found in Stone). These are similar in concept and it seems that hamstringing was mentioned in discussions of use of these, although there was a great deal of concern over whether these somewhat diminutive dagger axe type weapons were viable as weapons at all.
While uncertain on the hamstring use, these would seem effective at penetrating turbans, and I think these did have a sharpened edge so the hamstring idea may have some degree of application.

Actually I think the hamstring use of these weapons had never seemed of gret issue previously, as there was more focus on the armor and helmet piercing use, and it is maddening to have included that comment without having referenced it, which I deeply regret.

I do not have access to the Nicolle reference either....frustrating! It is among the many references I do not have with me presently in the bookmobile (RV we are travelling in, 2 years now, and presently in Ozark Mountains with lousy computer signal!).

We'll keep looking,
All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

In "Islamic Arms and Armour of Muslim India" (Dr.S.Haider, Lahore, 1991, p.235) on the zaghnal:
"...it had a pointed lance like head, provided with two cutting edges and arranged at right angle to the shaft. The head resembled a crows beak, hence its name zaghnol."
The Ain i Akbari reference is footnoted as list #30, plate xii, fig. 24.

It would seem that 'cutting edges' would suggest this blade could indeed be used for such an action as hamstringing.

I searched through Pant ("Indian Arms and Armour") who makes no reference to the zaghnal, but does note the 'bhuj'.

The bhuj is the hafted knife with blade in line with the haft, favored in Scinde, and often termed the 'elephant knife' due to the consistant presence of elephant figural motif usually at base of blade.

Note that many of these zaghnals have elephant figure motif on them.

In Egerton, fig, 26, is a line drawing of one of these bhuj, which is referred to as an axe called 'ravensbeak'.

The zaghnal is termed crows beak or crowbill, and apparantly the term zaghnal has something to do with the crow, as suggested by Haider.
Perhaps the questionmarked term 'buckie' shown in Egerton has similar application. The term 'hoolurge' also has a questionmark with it, suggesting Egerton is uncertain of this term as well as the buckie term.

I continued searching for any reference to Rajputs hamstringing, in "Islamic Arms and Armour" (Robert Elgood, 1979) and the chapter on Muslim warfare dealt with strategy and formation, not with incidental practices in battle.

I did find that the Scindi warriors preferred to dismount and fight on foot, and this was common among border tribes between Scinde and Rajputana.
("Sindh Revisited" C. Ondaatje, 1996. p.287).

I sincerely doubt that we will find the Kaemmerer reference outside a very large institution as it is apparantly over 30 volumes, with an exhausting title,
"Arsenal d'Tsarskoe Selo ou Collection d' armes de so Majestie l'Emperor de Toutes les Russies", G.Kaemmerer, St.Petersburg, 1869 !!! Yikes.

I think perhaps the best place to find specifics on Rajputs would be,
"Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan" James Tod, 1820's London and reprinted many times...descriptions of the Rajput clans and history. Wish I had my copy!!!

All I could find today,

Best,
Jim

[Jens Nordlunde]

In Indian Art at Marlborough House, case E #98 a Crow-bill or Hoolurge is shown. The text says it was given by the Jagudar of Alipoora/Alipur. This place is in Bangladesh, at the Ganges delta. I don’t have a picture at hand, but some years ago I posted all the show cases, maybe they can be found on the old forum.

[Sikh_soldier]

Hi Everyone,

First of all I would like to Humbly apologise Jim, I bought this item I believe 2 years ago, and I usually collect pictures and research on all the items I buy.
When I came to sell the Zaghnal I just used the materials I had acquired earlier, and did not think to credit the author. I did italicize the text to show that it was not my knowledge to be respected but anothers.

It is the first Zaghnal that I have seen, so I did not know too much about it, however the seller from whom I bought it labelled it as 18th if I remember correctly (will try and dig up the old files) it was off ebay.com.

I listed it as late 18th to 19th so not to misguide anyone, I also started the auction for £39.99, in any event I have probably made a small loss on the item, as I originally bought it for around £230-250 incl shipping and customs tax.

Sorry again to have offended anyone, and I will be more carefull in the future this forum has been a godsend, giving me inspiration and in an otherwise occassionally dubious and dodgy collecting world a source of good ethics and principles.

Bally

[Rick]

You're an honorable man , Bally .

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Bally,
Thank you very much for stepping forward, and I second Ricks comment, it takes distinct courage to admit error especially publicly...but in this case it is a matter of simple oversight, so no apology is necessary.

Actually, as I previously noted, I was pleased that my work was considered worthy of such application, and particularly that it was 'one of our own'..which you profoundly are!

This thread actually resulted in some good discussion, not as much on the topic of the accrediting in use of material, as on the study of these interesting dagger axes. This caused my review of earlier notes and adding somewhat I believe to what we know on them from extant sources.

Thank you for your kind words and for your forthright action, and especially for being a valuable member here........right on Bally!!!

All the very best,
Jim