Zaghnal

Rick · 15th May 2009, 04:04 AM

I am not happy with this at all; I share Jim's reservations about misuse of the information given on this forum .

Gavin Nugent · 15th May 2009, 06:00 AM

I too think direct use of this information by others for publishing it wrong, I thought all material found with the pages was somewhat of a copyright to the original owner of the text.
Although these forums are here for the whole world to see, I certainly feel a lot more reserved in the text and images I would continue to post, especially the long QianLong Shuang Jian I thought of sharing.
I know from the website I currently have under construction, that I can to a large degree protect images and text with programming, text cannot be simply cut and paste. Although it does not stop text being copied, it certainly reduces this issue as only the dedicated would want to type word for word.
Perhaps some programming can be added to cater for this?

Just some idle thoughts.

Gav

katana · 15th May 2009, 12:36 PM

The seller is 'one of our own'....I am sure he didn't mean to cause offence....and I'm also sure that he was impressed enough to refer to Jim's comments directly....perhaps in hindsight he should have cited Jim as the 'author'.

Regards David

Jim McDougall · 15th May 2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

The seller is 'one of our own'....I am sure he didn't mean to cause offence....and I'm also sure that he was impressed enough to refer to Jim's comments directly....perhaps in hindsight he should have cited Jim as the 'author'.

Regards David

Hi David,
I am sure that the individual meant so harm, and as cognizant as we are around here on copyright and such matters, I am sure this instance was simply an oversight. As I mentioned, I am actually flattered that my work is found worthy of such use, so I hope that comments are not considered over reacting, its simply that I am a strong believer that courteous protocol would preclude misunderstandings.

I can understand concerns this issue may present to those who contribute here, but sincerely hope that everyone will continue to unabatedly continue our standard practice of openly sharing data, items and ideas as we always have. It is what sets us apart from others, and actually it has always been my intent that our threads would become essentially archives that might serve as benchmarks for future research and the benefit of collectors who seek information on weapons.

The simple matter is, follow the golden rule, and when in doubt, ask.

I would prefer to let the matter go at that......and assure everyone that there are no hard feelings here toward anyone. If the person who used this was 'off campus' I may have different feelings in the matter, but frankly I'm relieved the user was indeed 'one of us'....and actually pleases me that they found my work worth using

All very best regards,
Jim

katana · 15th May 2009, 02:31 PM

Hi Jim

,
I totally agree....permission should have been sought.

....and Jim...with your usual informative posts, I think this will not be the last occurence

, hopefully people will now realise that 'courteous protocol' should be adopted, especially within a community like this forum. Knowing the member is usually very 'courteous'...I know this was an oversight.

All the best

Kind Regards David

VANDOO · 15th May 2009, 04:43 PM

I THINK MOST OF US ARE NOT CONCERENED WITH OTHERS USING THE INFORMATION OR PICTURES WE POST OPENLY HERE AS THEY SORT OF BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN WHEN POSTED. BUT AS JIM MENTIONED WE WOULD NOT LIKE OUR INFORMATION OR NAME USED ON SOME LESS THAN HONEST SALE OR DEAL.
FORUM MEMBERS SEEM TO BE INTERESTED IN GAINING AND SHAREING KNOWLEGE NOT IN CAUSING OFFENSE AND WE WOULD ALL SOUND SILLY IF WHEN WE STATED SOMETHING WE HAD LEARNED HERE WE HAD TO ALSO SAY QUOTE AND THE PERSONS NAME AND DATE HE SAID IT.

I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON A REFRENCE STOCKPILE BORROWING PICTURES FOR SOME TIME AND ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS HAVE NEEDED TO USE A PICTURE FROM SOMEONE ELSE TO SHOW WHAT KIND OF SWORD I WAS TALKING ABOUT AND SIMULARITYS OR WHY I REASONED AS I DID. OFTEN IT MAY BE A MEMBERS PICTURE OF A SWORD AND AS I ONLY LABEL THE PICTURE AS TO WHAT IT IS NOT WHERE I GOT IT OR WHO IT BELONGED TO I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT BELONGS TO. SO FAR NO ONE HAS BEEN OPENLY OFFENDED BY THIS AND I HOPE NO ONE HAS BEEN AS NO OFFENSE WAS INTENDED AND I DON'T KNOW WHO TO GIVE CREDIT TO.
ANOTHER GOOD THING ABOUT HAVING THESE PICTURES IS IF THEY GO MISSING FROM OLD POSTS THEY COULD BE REPLACED. WHEN THE PICTURES DISSAPEAR FROM OLD POSTS IT OFTEN MAKES THE POST WAY LESS IMFORMATIVE AS WE CAN NO LONGER SEE THE ITEMS BEING DISCUSSED.
IN THE PAST MANY DEALERS FIX IT SO YOU CAN'T GET THEIR PICTURES AND THEN WHEN THE SALE IS DONE THE PICTURES GO IN THE DELETE TRASH AND ARE LOST FOREVER. IT IS A WASTE BUT THERE IS NO PROBLEM THERE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PUT THEM IN YOUR COMPUTER AND IT IS THE PERSONS CHOICE WHAT HE DOES WITH HIS PICTURES.
LATELY THERE IS SOME OTHER PROGRAM BEING USED THAT ALLOWS YOU TO TAKE THE FILE BUT IT CAN'T BE OPENED, MOVED OR DELETED SO YOU JUST HAVE A DEAD CHUNK OF MEMORY TAKEING UP SPACE IN YOUR COMPUTER FOREVER. IF THIS BECOMES MORE COMMON I WILL HAVE TO STOP BUILDING A REFRENCE AS I WILL SOON HAVE TOO MUCH JUNK THAT I CAN'T PUT IN THE APPROPRIATE FOLDER OR DO ANYTHING WITH AT ALL. SOME OF THESE HAVE HAVE COME FROM FORUM POSTED PICTURES AND IT IS A FAIRLY RECENT THING IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO. ITS KIND OF LIKE GETTING REVENGE ON ANY WHO TRY TO TAKE YOUR PICTURE INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING NO THIS IS MINE (COPYWRITE)

I PERSONALLY DON'T MIND IF SOME ONE USES ANYTHING HE LEARNED FROM ME OR IF A SELLER USES INFORMATION I GAVE TO SELL SOMETHING. IF I WAS LIKE SOME I WOULD SAY KNOWLEGE IS POWER AND HOARD WHAT LITTLE I KNOW AND NEVER SHARE AND GLOAT THAT I KNEW SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T AND TAKE IT TO MY GRAVE WITH ME.
FORTUNATELY THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO COLLECT THIS KNOWLEGE AND LEAVE BOOKS OR PAPERS OR COLLECTIONS WITH CATALOGED INFORMATION FOR THE REST OF US OR WE WOULD KNOW EVEN LESS OF THE HISTORY OF WEAPONS THAN WE DO.
THIS FORUM IS AND WILL BE A VERY VALUABLE RESOURCE IN THE FUTURE.

Emanuel · 15th May 2009, 05:13 PM

I seem to recall this has happened before, with ebay sellers using the forum as a trust-worthy/formal/definitive source.

Jim, I am merely mining what I read on this very forum from folks like yourself. As for qualifications, few are as qualified as your are, my friend, to talk about arms.

About the zaghnal, is it safe to say that this is indeed a late 19th century piece assembled from miscelaneous other weapons?

Best regards

Emanuel

15th May 2009, 06:00 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Agree I too think direct use of this information by others for publishing it wrong, I thought all material found with the pages was somewhat of a copyright to the original owner of the text. Although these forums are here for the whole world to see, I certainly feel a lot more reserved in the text and images I would continue to post, especially the long QianLong Shuang Jian I thought of sharing. I know from the website I currently have under construction, that I can to a large degree protect images and text with programming, text cannot be simply cut and paste. Although it does not stop text being copied, it certainly reduces this issue as only the dedicated would want to type word for word. Perhaps some programming can be added to cater for this? Just some idle thoughts. Gav

15th May 2009, 04:04 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I am not happy with this at all; I share Jim's reservations about misuse of the information given on this forum .

15th May 2009, 12:36 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	The seller is 'one of our own'....I am sure he didn't mean to cause offence....and I'm also sure that he was impressed enough to refer to Jim's comments directly....perhaps in hindsight he should have cited Jim as the 'author'. Regards David

15th May 2009, 02:31 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Jim , I totally agree....permission should have been sought. ....and Jim...with your usual informative posts, I think this will not be the last occurence , hopefully people will now realise that 'courteous protocol' should be adopted, especially within a community like this forum. Knowing the member is usually very 'courteous'...I know this was an oversight. All the best Kind Regards David

15th May 2009, 04:43 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I THINK MOST OF US ARE NOT CONCERENED WITH OTHERS USING THE INFORMATION OR PICTURES WE POST OPENLY HERE AS THEY SORT OF BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN WHEN POSTED. BUT AS JIM MENTIONED WE WOULD NOT LIKE OUR INFORMATION OR NAME USED ON SOME LESS THAN HONEST SALE OR DEAL. FORUM MEMBERS SEEM TO BE INTERESTED IN GAINING AND SHAREING KNOWLEGE NOT IN CAUSING OFFENSE AND WE WOULD ALL SOUND SILLY IF WHEN WE STATED SOMETHING WE HAD LEARNED HERE WE HAD TO ALSO SAY QUOTE AND THE PERSONS NAME AND DATE HE SAID IT. I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON A REFRENCE STOCKPILE BORROWING PICTURES FOR SOME TIME AND ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS HAVE NEEDED TO USE A PICTURE FROM SOMEONE ELSE TO SHOW WHAT KIND OF SWORD I WAS TALKING ABOUT AND SIMULARITYS OR WHY I REASONED AS I DID. OFTEN IT MAY BE A MEMBERS PICTURE OF A SWORD AND AS I ONLY LABEL THE PICTURE AS TO WHAT IT IS NOT WHERE I GOT IT OR WHO IT BELONGED TO I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IT BELONGS TO. SO FAR NO ONE HAS BEEN OPENLY OFFENDED BY THIS AND I HOPE NO ONE HAS BEEN AS NO OFFENSE WAS INTENDED AND I DON'T KNOW WHO TO GIVE CREDIT TO. ANOTHER GOOD THING ABOUT HAVING THESE PICTURES IS IF THEY GO MISSING FROM OLD POSTS THEY COULD BE REPLACED. WHEN THE PICTURES DISSAPEAR FROM OLD POSTS IT OFTEN MAKES THE POST WAY LESS IMFORMATIVE AS WE CAN NO LONGER SEE THE ITEMS BEING DISCUSSED. IN THE PAST MANY DEALERS FIX IT SO YOU CAN'T GET THEIR PICTURES AND THEN WHEN THE SALE IS DONE THE PICTURES GO IN THE DELETE TRASH AND ARE LOST FOREVER. IT IS A WASTE BUT THERE IS NO PROBLEM THERE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PUT THEM IN YOUR COMPUTER AND IT IS THE PERSONS CHOICE WHAT HE DOES WITH HIS PICTURES. LATELY THERE IS SOME OTHER PROGRAM BEING USED THAT ALLOWS YOU TO TAKE THE FILE BUT IT CAN'T BE OPENED, MOVED OR DELETED SO YOU JUST HAVE A DEAD CHUNK OF MEMORY TAKEING UP SPACE IN YOUR COMPUTER FOREVER. IF THIS BECOMES MORE COMMON I WILL HAVE TO STOP BUILDING A REFRENCE AS I WILL SOON HAVE TOO MUCH JUNK THAT I CAN'T PUT IN THE APPROPRIATE FOLDER OR DO ANYTHING WITH AT ALL. SOME OF THESE HAVE HAVE COME FROM FORUM POSTED PICTURES AND IT IS A FAIRLY RECENT THING IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO. ITS KIND OF LIKE GETTING REVENGE ON ANY WHO TRY TO TAKE YOUR PICTURE INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING NO THIS IS MINE (COPYWRITE) I PERSONALLY DON'T MIND IF SOME ONE USES ANYTHING HE LEARNED FROM ME OR IF A SELLER USES INFORMATION I GAVE TO SELL SOMETHING. IF I WAS LIKE SOME I WOULD SAY KNOWLEGE IS POWER AND HOARD WHAT LITTLE I KNOW AND NEVER SHARE AND GLOAT THAT I KNEW SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T AND TAKE IT TO MY GRAVE WITH ME. FORTUNATELY THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO COLLECT THIS KNOWLEGE AND LEAVE BOOKS OR PAPERS OR COLLECTIONS WITH CATALOGED INFORMATION FOR THE REST OF US OR WE WOULD KNOW EVEN LESS OF THE HISTORY OF WEAPONS THAN WE DO. THIS FORUM IS AND WILL BE A VERY VALUABLE RESOURCE IN THE FUTURE.

15th May 2009, 05:13 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I seem to recall this has happened before, with ebay sellers using the forum as a trust-worthy/formal/definitive source. Jim, I am merely mining what I read on this very forum from folks like yourself. As for qualifications, few are as qualified as your are, my friend, to talk about arms. About the zaghnal, is it safe to say that this is indeed a late 19th century piece assembled from miscelaneous other weapons? Best regards Emanuel