Fledgling keris collector first purchases

David · 11th May 2009, 08:31 PM

I think that the hilt was a more recent marriage with this blade. Usually not a good idea to judge the origin of the blade from the dress. I would say it is probably a Javanese blade, though i doubt it was pre-Islamic. I think you would need to post a lot more close-ups of details before anyone could nail it down to a specific part of Jawa like Cirebon. Even then it's beyond my skill set, though others here seem much more knowledgeable on such things. The pesi (tang) still looks very intact. While this blade certainly has some age i am not sure it extends much past the 19th century.

Mefidk · 13th May 2009, 06:22 PM

Thanks David, I can see the sense in that.

So taking the hilt separately I assume if it is from Java and if I have my history of islamic influence correct then it is probably suggests a 16C date for the hilt. Whereas if it came from Bali then it could be much later. Is it possible to determine whether this is the case from pictures? I'd imagine that styles of carving at least would be pretty regional, and perhaps the dates as in the case of the tajong. Or are these assumptions just too simplistic

What I'm also wondering is whether it is normal for a hilt to survive that long and to be attached to a newer blade. I would have imagined that the older examples came with older blades as trophies/trade items from long ago, and that a keris hilt in use was more likely to be damaged and replaced than the blade with all the blade's symbolic importance; hence old blade new hilt would be more normal. However, I suppose what you are saying is that it is most likely that both were collected separately and joined by an earlier collector.

Rick · 16th May 2009, 01:31 AM

Doubtful that the hilt is from 16C , but one never knows ..

This hilt seems almost a fusion of Balinese and N.Jawa styles; there seems to be no tumpal throne as I know it .
The decorative motifs seem N. Coast .

The surface the figure is sitting on is quite different also.
What does it represent ?

The Sea, the Firmament ?

11th May 2009, 08:31 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I think that the hilt was a more recent marriage with this blade. Usually not a good idea to judge the origin of the blade from the dress. I would say it is probably a Javanese blade, though i doubt it was pre-Islamic. I think you would need to post a lot more close-ups of details before anyone could nail it down to a specific part of Jawa like Cirebon. Even then it's beyond my skill set, though others here seem much more knowledgeable on such things. The pesi (tang) still looks very intact. While this blade certainly has some age i am not sure it extends much past the 19th century.

13th May 2009, 06:22 PM	#2
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks David, I can see the sense in that. So taking the hilt separately I assume if it is from Java and if I have my history of islamic influence correct then it is probably suggests a 16C date for the hilt. Whereas if it came from Bali then it could be much later. Is it possible to determine whether this is the case from pictures? I'd imagine that styles of carving at least would be pretty regional, and perhaps the dates as in the case of the tajong. Or are these assumptions just too simplistic What I'm also wondering is whether it is normal for a hilt to survive that long and to be attached to a newer blade. I would have imagined that the older examples came with older blades as trophies/trade items from long ago, and that a keris hilt in use was more likely to be damaged and replaced than the blade with all the blade's symbolic importance; hence old blade new hilt would be more normal. However, I suppose what you are saying is that it is most likely that both were collected separately and joined by an earlier collector.

16th May 2009, 01:31 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Doubtful that the hilt is from 16C , but one never knows .. This hilt seems almost a fusion of Balinese and N.Jawa styles; there seems to be no tumpal throne as I know it . The decorative motifs seem N. Coast . The surface the figure is sitting on is quite different also. What does it represent ? The Sea, the Firmament ?