Fledgling keris collector first purchases

Rick · 10th May 2009, 02:58 PM

A Kebo with ganja iras; nice blade . IMHO

Rick · 11th May 2009, 07:24 PM

Silence is deafening .

Did I say something wrong ??

Mefidk · 11th May 2009, 07:39 PM

Rick - I was hoping that if I waited long enough someone might clue me in to what a kebo is, but I guess I just have to advertise my ignorance

I'm beginning to feel the need to buy my second keris book already - any suggestions to rectify ignorance problems such as the above?

Rick · 11th May 2009, 07:48 PM

I'm sorry, I was referring to the dapur of this blade; I should have said kebo lajer and completed the name ..

David · 11th May 2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mefidk

Rick - I was hoping that if I waited long enough someone might clue me in to what a kebo is, but I guess I just have to advertise my ignorance

I'm beginning to feel the need to buy my second keris book already - any suggestions to rectify ignorance problems such as the above?

Sorry Chris, but i think i did describe that for you, though perhaps it need a bit more explanation. I believe that literally "kebo" refers to a water buffalo, but in the context keris dhapurs it refers to a category of keris that have an enlongated gandik, that area at the front base of your blade. This i believe would be classified a kebo lajer. If it had a sekar kacang (the sort of abstract "elephant head" you see on many keris) then it might be kebo teki. Here is a link to a diagram that names parts of the Javanese keris:
http://kerisattosanaji.com/kerisdiagram.html
Hope that helps you.

BTW, you will probably need a great many books about keris and Indonesian cultures if you want to scratch the many layers of understanding that make up the inscrutable onion that is the keris. If you search this forum you will probably find a good list or two on where to get started.

Mefidk · 11th May 2009, 08:16 PM

Thanks for the explanation guys - its a great help.

Does this information help narrow down the origin and/or age. Henk suggested Cirebon. The hilt is bone and is of Hindu design, so does that indicate a pre-muslim date?

David · 11th May 2009, 08:31 PM

I think that the hilt was a more recent marriage with this blade. Usually not a good idea to judge the origin of the blade from the dress. I would say it is probably a Javanese blade, though i doubt it was pre-Islamic. I think you would need to post a lot more close-ups of details before anyone could nail it down to a specific part of Jawa like Cirebon. Even then it's beyond my skill set, though others here seem much more knowledgeable on such things. The pesi (tang) still looks very intact. While this blade certainly has some age i am not sure it extends much past the 19th century.

Mefidk · 13th May 2009, 06:22 PM

Thanks David, I can see the sense in that.

So taking the hilt separately I assume if it is from Java and if I have my history of islamic influence correct then it is probably suggests a 16C date for the hilt. Whereas if it came from Bali then it could be much later. Is it possible to determine whether this is the case from pictures? I'd imagine that styles of carving at least would be pretty regional, and perhaps the dates as in the case of the tajong. Or are these assumptions just too simplistic

What I'm also wondering is whether it is normal for a hilt to survive that long and to be attached to a newer blade. I would have imagined that the older examples came with older blades as trophies/trade items from long ago, and that a keris hilt in use was more likely to be damaged and replaced than the blade with all the blade's symbolic importance; hence old blade new hilt would be more normal. However, I suppose what you are saying is that it is most likely that both were collected separately and joined by an earlier collector.

10th May 2009, 02:58 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	A Kebo with ganja iras; nice blade . IMHO

11th May 2009, 07:24 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Silence is deafening . Did I say something wrong ??

11th May 2009, 07:39 PM	#3
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Rick - I was hoping that if I waited long enough someone might clue me in to what a kebo is, but I guess I just have to advertise my ignorance I'm beginning to feel the need to buy my second keris book already - any suggestions to rectify ignorance problems such as the above?

11th May 2009, 07:48 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I'm sorry, I was referring to the dapur of this blade; I should have said kebo lajer and completed the name ..

11th May 2009, 08:16 PM	#6
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks for the explanation guys - its a great help. Does this information help narrow down the origin and/or age. Henk suggested Cirebon. The hilt is bone and is of Hindu design, so does that indicate a pre-muslim date?

11th May 2009, 08:31 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I think that the hilt was a more recent marriage with this blade. Usually not a good idea to judge the origin of the blade from the dress. I would say it is probably a Javanese blade, though i doubt it was pre-Islamic. I think you would need to post a lot more close-ups of details before anyone could nail it down to a specific part of Jawa like Cirebon. Even then it's beyond my skill set, though others here seem much more knowledgeable on such things. The pesi (tang) still looks very intact. While this blade certainly has some age i am not sure it extends much past the 19th century.

13th May 2009, 06:22 PM	#8
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks David, I can see the sense in that. So taking the hilt separately I assume if it is from Java and if I have my history of islamic influence correct then it is probably suggests a 16C date for the hilt. Whereas if it came from Bali then it could be much later. Is it possible to determine whether this is the case from pictures? I'd imagine that styles of carving at least would be pretty regional, and perhaps the dates as in the case of the tajong. Or are these assumptions just too simplistic What I'm also wondering is whether it is normal for a hilt to survive that long and to be attached to a newer blade. I would have imagined that the older examples came with older blades as trophies/trade items from long ago, and that a keris hilt in use was more likely to be damaged and replaced than the blade with all the blade's symbolic importance; hence old blade new hilt would be more normal. However, I suppose what you are saying is that it is most likely that both were collected separately and joined by an earlier collector.