Swordbreakers: A Myth ?

[fearn]

Hi Jim,

This is better than Mythbusters, because we've already got results. That might be sour grapes from pitching some weapons myths on their board a few years ago, but still it's fun to see people trying swordbreakers out and seeing what came of it.

Couple more thoughts. I think there might be a reason why they're called swordbreakers rather than, say, swordtrappers. If I was in a duel with you, and I had this weird gizmo called a "swordbreaker" in my off hand, you'd think, "right, amateur, that'll never break a sword." Then I'd trap your blade with it and skewer you. If I had a "swordtrapper" in my offhand, you'd take one look at it and be extra careful. Sometimes a misleading name is useful.

While I'm not sure how common swordbreakers are vs. main gauche blades, if they're less common, I'd guess it was because they're only useful if you've got a blade in your main hand. A main gauche is still a dagger, after all.

Great thread!

F

[celtan]

Some interesting main gauche pictures I have collected from the net in the last years. The serrated borders and decorations in many make me believe they were designed to prevent the opponent's blade from sliding away while pushing them out of the way for the riposte
OTOH, I still can't figure out the reason for so many holes and even ricasso-wells in some of them. To lighten the blade, or insert poison perhaps?
Please note that the Artileria Blade is a 19th C Victorian remake made in Toledo from the original.
Manuel Luis

[Paul Macdonald]

The oval recess in the ricasso as pictured above is for the thumb to fit in.

The grip is held with four fingers wrapped around and the thumb sits over the rear of the crossguard to sit on the ricasso face. Many original main gauches have this thumb recess to accomodate this grip.

[celtan]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the explanation, I suspected as much. And yet, the small size of the well doesn't seem able to properly fit a thumb.

OTOH, our ancestor were smaller...

Best

M

Originally Posted by Paul Macdonald

The oval recess in the ricasso as pictured above is for the thumb to fit in.

The grip is held with four fingers wrapped around and the thumb sits over the rear of the crossguard to sit on the ricasso face. Many original main gauches have this thumb recess to accomodate this grip.

[Gonzalo G]

Briefly, let see some facts:

1. The term is not used in spanish for any weapon. It seems a popular name used in other countries.
2. The main gauche have several names in spanish, but none is equivalent to ´swordbreaker´
3. The main gauche is used in the rapier fencing, and not with other kind of swords. It is mainly a civilian weapon, but not exclusively. We can differenciate very clearly the main gauche used in rapier fencing from other kind of weapons showed here.
4. The main gauche used in rapier fencing does not pretend to breake a sword blade, but only catch it or stop it, as it has been said before. Eventually, it is used to attack or to finish a wounded enemy.
5. I agree with kisak. The blades used in swords from this period have not the hardness as to break them. They are more easily bended.
6. The spanish rapier was generally made with a core of iron, with an outer envelope of steel. At least in Toledo. I don´t believe this rapiers are easily broken.
7. The rompepuntas (point breaker) has that popular name in their time (and not from a romantic writter), though its purpose was to deviate the point of the opponent´s sword from the hand, as it is a difficult maneuvre to catch the point of a sword with it and breake it. Neverthless, the point of a rapier is more fragile due its slenderness and the fact that it has not the iron core the rest of the blade has.
8. The chinese used to defend from a sword mainly with the use of a shield, and only the martial arts schools developed other defensive weapons, more or less experimental.
9. I also don´t believe that a nihonto could be broken with this kind of weapon, for the same reasons that in the case of the rapier. The soft core and the selected quenching, the multi laminated layers and the thickness of the blade, makes it very difficult.
10. I agree: the term is probably given from popular use, and is more a myth than other.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Jeff D]

Hi Jim,

I posted this question on this forum where they are more interested in the martial arts aspect of swords. http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB2...=215693#215693 . I think they have it right, that the term break in the sword fighting treatises means to tie up, slow down or 'render useless' , ie: these are sword brake(r)s rather then sword breakers.

All the best
Jeff

[Matchlock]

Just in case anyone likes to care.
Michael