Pamorless keris (keleng)

Sajen · 3rd May 2009, 03:03 PM

Nice keleng blade and good pictures.
sajen

kulbuntet · 3rd May 2009, 04:03 PM

Annyone had a thought about that the waragnan bath maybe was to strong.. I think the blade has got pamor, but the wash was to strong.

ferrylaki · 4th May 2009, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

Annyone had a thought about that the waragnan bath maybe was to strong.. I think the blade has got pamor, but the wash was to strong.

I understand your thought about the ' too strong warangan' . at the first time I also have the same feeling about this keris. It must be a pamor keris.
I find it so difficult to find a kelengan keris. thats why this keris amuse me so much, because it trully is a kelengan keris. I've been asking for some opinion regarding this keris. all of them says it is a kelengan keris.

the warangan job it self done in a very good manner, by a goos friend of mine. he is a a very skillfull person with warangan and other keris related activities.
lets us continue this discussion to its tangguh. I have a thought this keris has tangguh of: early Hamengku Buwono. looking at its gonjo.
any body has another idea?

A. G. Maisey · 6th May 2009, 01:27 AM

Ferry, I know you to be quite knowledgeable in the field of keris, you have this keris in your hand, and your opinion is that it is early HB.

However, I would ask you to consider this:-

is it legitimate to give a kraton based tangguh to a keris that is obviously of far less than kraton quality?

is it possible to give a supportable opinion in respect of tangguh when we are dealing with a keris that lacks many of the indicators that we would normally use to establish an opinion?

is it possible that we are looking at a keris that might be able to be categorised as Kajoran, or perhaps Godean --- or maybe, just maybe, Palembang?

I myself am not prepared to offer an opinion on this keris, simply because it is far too difficult to form an opinion from just a photo. I cannot accurately appraise the pawakan, I have no idea at all of the tanting, I cannot feel the texture, I cannot see if the ganja is sebit ron or nguceng mati, I do not know the form of the sirah cecak---its just too hard from a photo, especially for a blade like this.

What I think I can see is what appears to be a fairly substantial blade with a sharply defined ada-ada running full length of the blade, no kruwingan, a square blumbangan, a ganja with a mid line curve, but a small and harsh tungkakan. This is sufficient to point my mind along a certain road, but at the end of that road there are a number of gateways. I do not know from the photos which one to choose.

ferrylaki · 6th May 2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Ferry, I know you to be quite knowledgeable in the field of keris, you have this keris in your hand, and your opinion is that it is early HB.

However, I would ask you to consider this:-

is it legitimate to give a kraton based tangguh to a keris that is obviously of far less than kraton quality?

is it possible to give a supportable opinion in respect of tangguh when we are dealing with a keris that lacks many of the indicators that we would normally use to establish an opinion?

is it possible that we are looking at a keris that might be able to be categorised as Kajoran, or perhaps Godean --- or maybe, just maybe, Palembang?

I myself am not prepared to offer an opinion on this keris, simply because it is far too difficult to form an opinion from just a photo. I cannot accurately appraise the pawakan, I have no idea at all of the tanting, I cannot feel the texture, I cannot see if the ganja is sebit ron or nguceng mati, I do not know the form of the sirah cecak---its just too hard from a photo, especially for a blade like this.

What I think I can see is what appears to be a fairly substantial blade with a sharply defined ada-ada running full length of the blade, no kruwingan, a square blumbangan, a ganja with a mid line curve, but a small and harsh tungkakan. This is sufficient to point my mind along a certain road, but at the end of that road there are a number of gateways. I do not know from the photos which one to choose.

Hai Alan, I finally got your attention.
I define the tangguh to be early HB since its original warangka is a Jogjanese brangah. sorry I didnt include the warangka ini the picture.
I also understand its very hard to judge tangguh using photograph.
we must feel the surface, the tantingan, etc.
I try my best to provide these good pictures for us to discuss.
I rarely meet palembang keris. the last palembang keris I met is much much thicker with sharply defined ada-ada which is also running full lenght of the blade. using a kinatah gonjo, very beautiful keris ( a saw the keris 2 weeks ago) .

I hope this discussion would continue a bit longer. I really apreciate any opinion about this keris. I try my best to provide a decent keris to be discussed.
Hope that my Thread would become a usefull discussion material for all of us.
Thank you.

Ferrylaki

David · 6th May 2009, 04:23 AM

Can someone please define tantingan?

A. G. Maisey · 6th May 2009, 05:14 AM

Tantingan is the weight estimated by holding in your hand---yes, its as specific as that, you must hold it. Can apply to anything, not just keris.

Actually Ferry, you got my attention on day one, but I was hoping somebody else would jump into the pond before I did.

I tend to take no notice at all of the dress a blade comes in, often, that will only confuse you. Have you been to the musium in the Mangkunegaran, Ferry? Seen the keris worn by Balinese mercenaries? Over the years I've seen Bugis blades in old Central Jawa dress, Bali blades in old Central Jawa dress, lots of old Madura blades in old Central Jawa dress, and I've seen old Javanese blades in old Bali dress. I just don't take a lot of notice of the dress if I'm trying to decide what the classification of a blade might be.

Yeah, some of the good Palembang are as good as anything we find from Central Jawa. I've got a real nice Palembang with heavy, perfect kinatah, fine ivory hilt and swasa pendok. I bought it in London, of all places.

3rd May 2009, 03:03 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,418	Nice keleng blade and good pictures. sajen

3rd May 2009, 04:03 PM	#2
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Annyone had a thought about that the waragnan bath maybe was to strong.. I think the blade has got pamor, but the wash was to strong.

6th May 2009, 01:27 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Ferry, I know you to be quite knowledgeable in the field of keris, you have this keris in your hand, and your opinion is that it is early HB. However, I would ask you to consider this:- is it legitimate to give a kraton based tangguh to a keris that is obviously of far less than kraton quality? is it possible to give a supportable opinion in respect of tangguh when we are dealing with a keris that lacks many of the indicators that we would normally use to establish an opinion? is it possible that we are looking at a keris that might be able to be categorised as Kajoran, or perhaps Godean --- or maybe, just maybe, Palembang? I myself am not prepared to offer an opinion on this keris, simply because it is far too difficult to form an opinion from just a photo. I cannot accurately appraise the pawakan, I have no idea at all of the tanting, I cannot feel the texture, I cannot see if the ganja is sebit ron or nguceng mati, I do not know the form of the sirah cecak---its just too hard from a photo, especially for a blade like this. What I think I can see is what appears to be a fairly substantial blade with a sharply defined ada-ada running full length of the blade, no kruwingan, a square blumbangan, a ganja with a mid line curve, but a small and harsh tungkakan. This is sufficient to point my mind along a certain road, but at the end of that road there are a number of gateways. I do not know from the photos which one to choose.

6th May 2009, 04:23 AM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Can someone please define tantingan?

6th May 2009, 05:14 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Tantingan is the weight estimated by holding in your hand---yes, its as specific as that, you must hold it. Can apply to anything, not just keris. Actually Ferry, you got my attention on day one, but I was hoping somebody else would jump into the pond before I did. I tend to take no notice at all of the dress a blade comes in, often, that will only confuse you. Have you been to the musium in the Mangkunegaran, Ferry? Seen the keris worn by Balinese mercenaries? Over the years I've seen Bugis blades in old Central Jawa dress, Bali blades in old Central Jawa dress, lots of old Madura blades in old Central Jawa dress, and I've seen old Javanese blades in old Bali dress. I just don't take a lot of notice of the dress if I'm trying to decide what the classification of a blade might be. Yeah, some of the good Palembang are as good as anything we find from Central Jawa. I've got a real nice Palembang with heavy, perfect kinatah, fine ivory hilt and swasa pendok. I bought it in London, of all places.