Kaskara - help with translation please?

Jim McDougall · 1st May 2009, 08:20 PM

Thanks Ward, I was assuming Ali Dinar was the point of reference, but was unsure...couldn't recall what year he was killed by British after insurgency.

I am curious about the snake/python symbolism,which does seem to occur noticeably on blades from Darfur and these regions, enough to be noted in the Reed article.

Thank you for the links Stephen, I did indeed find them interesting, especially the note on Peter Knell blades.

The cross and orb is different than those typically inscribed on European blades in which the cross's verticle line extends to a horizontal line bisecting the orb. Italian blades of some similarity identified by the markings on them , as well as the orb and cross as early as 16th century are known in Tunisian regions. Perhaps these were the prototypes for the native applied versions.

The lion reminds me in essence of the winged lions found stamped in some schiavona, for St. Marks. I believe the stance is however similar. There is of course considerable record of Venetian trade into Tunisian regions.

Thanks again guys,
all the best,
Jim

Jeff D · 1st May 2009, 09:14 PM

Hi All,

I have posted this one of mine a couple times. The marks are attributed to Peter Kull the print is from Geschichte Der Solinger Klingenindustrie by R. Cronau.

I hope this helps.

All the Best
Jeff

stephen wood · 1st May 2009, 11:09 PM

Thanks...did that sword come from Artzi (Oriental Arms)? There was one on his site before which looked quite old. When I saw him at the London Arms Fair he mentioned seeing one with those marks there (it was in my bag by then

).

In the Pallme text Peter Knell is presumably Peter Kull. He gives very precise dimensions which suggest that blade length was standard by that time. The nearest I could find to the Death's Head mark is below...

Would the inlay have been done as part of the forging process or later?

Jeff D · 2nd May 2009, 12:20 AM

Hi Stephen,

No I got this one quite a few years ago, it was about to be taken apart to have its "original" crusader style hilt placed on it

. I did see a similar one on Artzi's site a few years ago. The inlay was added to the original makers marks later, most likely locally. It appears to be a red gold. The example you show is not the deaths head mark it is a swallow tail butterfly for a yet unknown maker. The only death's head I have seen is on this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=skull+kull this is apparently on a kilij which doesn't make sense, unless it was converted to a kilij from a original broad sword. Unfortunately Teodor was not able to show the blade to confirm this.

All the Best
Jeff

TVV · 2nd May 2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff D

Unfortunately Teodor was not able to show the blade to confirm this.

Jeff,

I regret not seeing the entire blade perhaps even more than you do. According to the owner, it is of pattern welded damascus, but I have never been able to confirm this.

Hopefully one day it will surface up for sale and I will be able to obtain more info and pictures.

Regards,

Teodor

stephen wood · 2nd May 2009, 01:34 AM

...that has to be it. The pierced tang is exactly what I would expect to see on a kaskara blade. It also fits Pallme's comment that the imported blades are "...rounded off inferiorly".

stephen wood · 6th May 2009, 02:35 PM

...on closer inspection I think the blade might have been shortened - at the hilt - by what I believe is called stock removal. Has anyone come across this method before?

1st May 2009, 09:14 PM	#2
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi All, I have posted this one of mine a couple times. The marks are attributed to Peter Kull the print is from Geschichte Der Solinger Klingenindustrie by R. Cronau. I hope this helps. All the Best Jeff Attached Images

1st May 2009, 11:09 PM	#3
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Thanks...did that sword come from Artzi (Oriental Arms)? There was one on his site before which looked quite old. When I saw him at the London Arms Fair he mentioned seeing one with those marks there (it was in my bag by then ). In the Pallme text Peter Knell is presumably Peter Kull. He gives very precise dimensions which suggest that blade length was standard by that time. The nearest I could find to the Death's Head mark is below... Would the inlay have been done as part of the forging process or later? Attached Images

1st May 2009, 08:20 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Thanks Ward, I was assuming Ali Dinar was the point of reference, but was unsure...couldn't recall what year he was killed by British after insurgency. I am curious about the snake/python symbolism,which does seem to occur noticeably on blades from Darfur and these regions, enough to be noted in the Reed article. Thank you for the links Stephen, I did indeed find them interesting, especially the note on Peter Knell blades. The cross and orb is different than those typically inscribed on European blades in which the cross's verticle line extends to a horizontal line bisecting the orb. Italian blades of some similarity identified by the markings on them , as well as the orb and cross as early as 16th century are known in Tunisian regions. Perhaps these were the prototypes for the native applied versions. The lion reminds me in essence of the winged lions found stamped in some schiavona, for St. Marks. I believe the stance is however similar. There is of course considerable record of Venetian trade into Tunisian regions. Thanks again guys, all the best, Jim

2nd May 2009, 12:20 AM	#4
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Stephen, No I got this one quite a few years ago, it was about to be taken apart to have its "original" crusader style hilt placed on it . I did see a similar one on Artzi's site a few years ago. The inlay was added to the original makers marks later, most likely locally. It appears to be a red gold. The example you show is not the deaths head mark it is a swallow tail butterfly for a yet unknown maker. The only death's head I have seen is on this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=skull+kull this is apparently on a kilij which doesn't make sense, unless it was converted to a kilij from a original broad sword. Unfortunately Teodor was not able to show the blade to confirm this. All the Best Jeff

2nd May 2009, 01:34 AM	#6
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...that has to be it. The pierced tang is exactly what I would expect to see on a kaskara blade. It also fits Pallme's comment that the imported blades are "...rounded off inferiorly".

6th May 2009, 02:35 PM	#7
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...on closer inspection I think the blade might have been shortened - at the hilt - by what I believe is called stock removal. Has anyone come across this method before?