Wootz ingots, where do they all come from?

ALEX · 1st May 2009, 04:34 PM

Steve,
I am not questioning the statement made by the seller about these cakes coming from India and being antique. It wery well could be. However, there are modern methods to produce them. See this: New_Wootz
The process describes making wootz cakes using cast iron, the freshly crushed green glass, dandelions and iron powder. It also shows four of these cakes, too bad no close-ups available for visual comparison.
I do not know if 'new' cakes will look the same as yours, or whether they'd show the same wootz pattern upon etching, or how to tell if they're authentic. Perhaps Rick will agree to comment.

archer · 1st May 2009, 07:31 PM

Alchemy lives on, that's a wild formula you have to wonder how it came about. I only bought one 175 Grams for a bit over a twenty so, it was like a lottery ticket. I knew if i got one of the larger ones I'd have put it to a hammer. This ones too small and will remain a great paperweight.
Thanks, for the info, Steve

Here a link he sent regarding testing all in German http://members.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI....erid=wootzcake

Jeff Pringle · 4th May 2009, 10:02 AM

I’m sure Ric has something to say about these, too, but since they are a pet peeve of mine I’ll recap a couple reasons from earlier in the thread - you can be confident these are not wootz, modern or ancient.
1. They do not look like ingots of metal that were melted in small crucibles, those are shaped like the bottom of a crucible on one side, and like solidified liquid on the other. The shape of the crucible can differ, but if you look at the image below I think you will see what I mean – that is a sectioned ingot of 19th century Indian wootz that shows up in Smith’s “The History of Metallography” and Figiel’s book.
2. All steels solidify with a dendritic structure, not just wootz, so that is irrelevant but often comes up because people first hear of crystalline dendrites in steel via wootz.
3. Despite what he says in on his page, the chemistry of historic wootz is very consistent, the amounts of the various elements tend to vary by just tenths of a percent. Here’s a table that shows just how far out of line his product is - numbers that are more than a few tenths of a percent off are very significant, and in this case they point directly away from wootz.

1st May 2009, 04:34 PM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Steve, I am not questioning the statement made by the seller about these cakes coming from India and being antique. It wery well could be. However, there are modern methods to produce them. See this: New_Wootz The process describes making wootz cakes using cast iron, the freshly crushed green glass, dandelions and iron powder. It also shows four of these cakes, too bad no close-ups available for visual comparison. I do not know if 'new' cakes will look the same as yours, or whether they'd show the same wootz pattern upon etching, or how to tell if they're authentic. Perhaps Rick will agree to comment. Last edited by ALEX; 1st May 2009 at 04:51 PM.

1st May 2009, 07:31 PM	#2
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Reply Alchemy lives on, that's a wild formula you have to wonder how it came about. I only bought one 175 Grams for a bit over a twenty so, it was like a lottery ticket. I knew if i got one of the larger ones I'd have put it to a hammer. This ones too small and will remain a great paperweight. Thanks, for the info, Steve Here a link he sent regarding testing all in German http://members.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI....erid=wootzcake Last edited by archer; 2nd May 2009 at 04:27 AM.

4th May 2009, 10:02 AM	#3
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	I’m sure Ric has something to say about these, too, but since they are a pet peeve of mine I’ll recap a couple reasons from earlier in the thread - you can be confident these are not wootz, modern or ancient. 1. They do not look like ingots of metal that were melted in small crucibles, those are shaped like the bottom of a crucible on one side, and like solidified liquid on the other. The shape of the crucible can differ, but if you look at the image below I think you will see what I mean – that is a sectioned ingot of 19th century Indian wootz that shows up in Smith’s “The History of Metallography” and Figiel’s book. 2. All steels solidify with a dendritic structure, not just wootz, so that is irrelevant but often comes up because people first hear of crystalline dendrites in steel via wootz. 3. Despite what he says in on his page, the chemistry of historic wootz is very consistent, the amounts of the various elements tend to vary by just tenths of a percent. Here’s a table that shows just how far out of line his product is - numbers that are more than a few tenths of a percent off are very significant, and in this case they point directly away from wootz. Attached Images