Please help to identify this dagger

Tatyana Dianova · 29th April 2009, 02:35 PM

Hi Rod,
I have never heard about Afghani Kukris… It would be very nice if you will post some examples of them here, as well as the mentioned Afghani pieces. I often rely on the general feeling too when attributing pieces, but knowledge is better

DhaDha · 29th April 2009, 05:06 PM

Inveterate, I think your hunches are pretty good. I also see the Afghani styles at work. Well, now that you mention it

When I first looked at this one it reminded me of this:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=nepali+bowie

Attached is a pic of a Kukri with similar fullers.

Could be a combo of different cultures...

inveterate · 29th April 2009, 08:56 PM

Tatyana, As a result of my complete technical ineptitude I have never worked out how to post pics on this Forum, if you PM me your email address I will be happy to send you some pics of Afghan Kukri with blade styles showing similarities to that which you have shown , alternatively you could search Afghan on the www.ikrhs.com forum. Cheers Rod

Tatyana Dianova · 30th April 2009, 12:08 PM

Thank you for sharing this beautiful Kukri, DhaDha!
Well, I have a similar old North Indian Kukri, discussed previously here
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5908
but it looks and feels a bit different than the dagger in question… But you are right: it is definitely an example of cultural mix…

Jens Nordlunde · 30th April 2009, 04:45 PM

Sorry Tatyana, I have had no luck so far, but I feel sure I have seen a blade like the one you show, so I will go on looking.
Your dagger also gives me the feeling of north India and the boarding areas, but I am not sure where.
Jens

Tim Simmons · 30th April 2009, 05:08 PM

I had two of these with clear Nepalese possibly Tibetan stye scabbards. The blades were not as fancy but the same shape. Sadly the pictures are gone. A Canandian member known as "Jimpul" was the recipient of one perhaps he might be encouraged to post pictures if he still has it. The other one went to a non member.

Tatyana Dianova · 30th April 2009, 08:15 PM

I am very grateful for your help and efforts, many thanks

The pictures would be extremely useful...
Here is the picture of Afghani Kukris that Rod has kindly sent me today.

Jim McDougall · 1st May 2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

Hi Rod,
I have never heard about Afghani Kukris… It would be very nice if you will post some examples of them here, as well as the mentioned Afghani pieces. I often rely on the general feeling too when attributing pieces, but knowledge is better

I must say I have never really been aware of Afghan kukris either, but such examples I would imagine would be esoteric enough for knowledge of them to be relegated to those who study and specialize in kukris. I am wondering if these would be related to the 1880's-turn of the century, when the Afghan government began to adopt many British influences, especially in military fashion. In fact, now that I think of it, those distinct Afghan military swords with European style hilts of the 1880's that were used into the 20th century, also had this deep and dramatic fullering.
I suppose that would present some support for the Afghan attribution as well as the other features noted in the thread.
The Afghan army was not only wearing British 'Albert' helmets, but some wearing kilts as well! It does not seem unlikely that the kukri of the famed Gurkha units would not be of some influence also.

I still cannot get the Transcaucasian thoughts out of my mind though!

So far the only such examples I have found have had some type of either splayed or horned pommel hilts, with which the splayed form does not entirely discount the 'fishtail' effect.

All best regards,
Jim

Tatyana Dianova · 1st May 2009, 08:56 PM

Jim, it is really an exiting and wonderful Trancaucasian theory! It would be very interesting if you will find something in your books. Thank you a lot!
I wasn’t posting for a long time because I wasn’t able to upload any pictures… This month I have finally changed my Internet provider – and now upload works!!!
Rod has sent me today another interesting picture of ‘a few Kukri with cross guards, these are early tourist pieces (1920-1940) from Northern India’

Tatyana Dianova · 1st May 2009, 08:58 PM

I have another large and heavy unknown dagger with recurving blade. I thought I will start later a separate thread about it, but maybe it is relevant to the dagger in question. Handle is bone, rosettes – copper, there is a rest for a thumb on the top of the handle. The dagger has a full tang, and this tang is very thick

Phil · 2nd May 2009, 01:58 PM

Tatyana,
Concerning your first dagger: here’s another example which was (probably still is) on Oriental-Arms. Said to be “early to mid 19 C. and it comes from North India”.

ariel · 2nd May 2009, 02:39 PM

Tatiana,
So good to see you back! You always bring such unconventional things!
As to you dagger with bone handle and para-i-tutti-ish blade, I couldn't help but notice a very peculiar bolster: kind of "staircase-like" ( for want of a better comparison).
It eerily reminds me of Adya Katti, from Coorg/ Malabar area.
Here is a reference to it from Artzi's collection and every other example he has on his site shows the same thing ( just go over them):
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1520
What would we do without Artzi/Avner's site?

Tatyana Dianova · 2nd May 2009, 09:54 PM

Almost all unconventional pieces seem to be pretty late, and some of them are simply composite pieces… Anyway, it is interesting to know where the parts or influences come from… Sometimes it is pretty difficult, as it is for example with a Shashka with a cross-guard, which was posted recently by Ariel.
Today I have visited the old castle in Loket, Czech Republik, and at the castle museum I have seen an old yataghan with a recurving blade, which seems to be of European origin

Are there any other ‘ladder’ bolsters around, except Adya Katti???

29th April 2009, 05:06 PM	#2
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 178	Inveterate, I think your hunches are pretty good. I also see the Afghani styles at work. Well, now that you mention it When I first looked at this one it reminded me of this: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=nepali+bowie Attached is a pic of a Kukri with similar fullers. Could be a combo of different cultures... Attached Images

30th April 2009, 12:08 PM	#4
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Thank you for sharing this beautiful Kukri, DhaDha! Well, I have a similar old North Indian Kukri, discussed previously here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5908 but it looks and feels a bit different than the dagger in question… But you are right: it is definitely an example of cultural mix… Attached Images

30th April 2009, 08:15 PM	#7
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	I am very grateful for your help and efforts, many thanks The pictures would be extremely useful... Here is the picture of Afghani Kukris that Rod has kindly sent me today. Attached Images

1st May 2009, 08:56 PM	#9
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Jim, it is really an exiting and wonderful Trancaucasian theory! It would be very interesting if you will find something in your books. Thank you a lot! I wasn’t posting for a long time because I wasn’t able to upload any pictures… This month I have finally changed my Internet provider – and now upload works!!! Rod has sent me today another interesting picture of ‘a few Kukri with cross guards, these are early tourist pieces (1920-1940) from Northern India’ Attached Images

1st May 2009, 08:58 PM	#10
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	I have another large and heavy unknown dagger with recurving blade. I thought I will start later a separate thread about it, but maybe it is relevant to the dagger in question. Handle is bone, rosettes – copper, there is a rest for a thumb on the top of the handle. The dagger has a full tang, and this tang is very thick Attached Images

29th April 2009, 02:35 PM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Hi Rod, I have never heard about Afghani Kukris… It would be very nice if you will post some examples of them here, as well as the mentioned Afghani pieces. I often rely on the general feeling too when attributing pieces, but knowledge is better

29th April 2009, 08:56 PM	#3
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	Tatyana, As a result of my complete technical ineptitude I have never worked out how to post pics on this Forum, if you PM me your email address I will be happy to send you some pics of Afghan Kukri with blade styles showing similarities to that which you have shown , alternatively you could search Afghan on the www.ikrhs.com forum. Cheers Rod

30th April 2009, 04:45 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry Tatyana, I have had no luck so far, but I feel sure I have seen a blade like the one you show, so I will go on looking. Your dagger also gives me the feeling of north India and the boarding areas, but I am not sure where. Jens

30th April 2009, 05:08 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I had two of these with clear Nepalese possibly Tibetan stye scabbards. The blades were not as fancy but the same shape. Sadly the pictures are gone. A Canandian member known as "Jimpul" was the recipient of one perhaps he might be encouraged to post pictures if he still has it. The other one went to a non member.

2nd May 2009, 01:58 PM	#11
Phil Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6	Tatyana, Concerning your first dagger: here’s another example which was (probably still is) on Oriental-Arms. Said to be “early to mid 19 C. and it comes from North India”. Attached Images

2nd May 2009, 02:39 PM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Tatiana, So good to see you back! You always bring such unconventional things! As to you dagger with bone handle and para-i-tutti-ish blade, I couldn't help but notice a very peculiar bolster: kind of "staircase-like" ( for want of a better comparison). It eerily reminds me of Adya Katti, from Coorg/ Malabar area. Here is a reference to it from Artzi's collection and every other example he has on his site shows the same thing ( just go over them): http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1520 What would we do without Artzi/Avner's site?

2nd May 2009, 09:54 PM	#13
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Almost all unconventional pieces seem to be pretty late, and some of them are simply composite pieces… Anyway, it is interesting to know where the parts or influences come from… Sometimes it is pretty difficult, as it is for example with a Shashka with a cross-guard, which was posted recently by Ariel. Today I have visited the old castle in Loket, Czech Republik, and at the castle museum I have seen an old yataghan with a recurving blade, which seems to be of European origin Are there any other ‘ladder’ bolsters around, except Adya Katti??? Attached Images