Help Identify this Sword

Jim McDougall · 28th April 2009, 05:20 PM

Hi Jeff,
Excellent suggestion on the foreign fraternity groups, which I had not even thought of. The immigration in those post Civil War years well into the 1920's was unbelievable in volume, with so many nationalities represented. I know that some of my own relatives were among them in the 1870's and 80's.
Great movie too!!! "The Red Violin" , I loved that movie and that really is what its all about, what an item has to tell you, the stories of its own history. As I watched that movie intently I realized that what we do is essentially antique weapon forensics

Tom,
Did you receive my email ?

All best regards,
Jim

Tom · 28th April 2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Tom,
Did you receive my email ?

All best regards,
Jim

I did, Thank you and I will follow up as soon as I can.

katana · 28th April 2009, 09:21 PM

Here is a mention of the initials, unfortunately the links to the pictures do not work

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Regards David

Jim McDougall · 29th April 2009, 02:13 PM

Excellent follow up there detective David!!!! Looks like Jeff's German based organization idea was well placed. It looks like the German imported blade combined with hilt components from sundry stocks from regalia outfitters and producers put together for this apparant organization of German American representation, is quite plausible. Since we know of at least one more example with this inscription and basic style, we know of the group in Columbus. Ohio in the 1890's. Key manufacturers based in Kalamazoo,Mich. Frank Henderson not unreasonably far away.

As mentioned, how it ended up at a riverbank in Maryland is anybody's guess. If the find location was near what is or what was a picnic or camping area, certainly events sponsored by or participated in by such groups in that time period seem possible.
In more wildly speculative thoughts, perhaps kids playing with grandpas old sword near the location ? Fearful thought, but not that it ever happened

none of us would ever have thought of such antics

Jeff and David, thank you so much for helping with this, and its always great hearing from you guys!!! Jeff, I hope it lets up a little bit on you soon.

All the best,
Jim

Tom · 2nd May 2009, 08:07 PM

well, I have been diligently searching the www for the group and other things I have found while researching the town and I have had no success at all. I just wanted to let all know I'm still working on this and haven't forgotten about the post.
I have a lot more info to work with now then what I started with thanks to y'all but it seams I'm spinning my wheels, I'm going to give it a couple days rest as my little brain is worn out right now.
I'll update soon I hope and for sure if I stumble upon something relevant.

Rick · 2nd May 2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent follow up there detective David!!!! Looks like Jeff's German based organization idea was well placed. It looks like the German imported blade combined with hilt components from sundry stocks from regalia outfitters and producers put together for this apparant organization of German American representation, is quite plausible. Since we know of at least one more example with this inscription and basic style, we know of the group in Columbus. Ohio in the 1890's. Key manufacturers based in Kalamazoo,Mich. Frank Henderson not unreasonably far away.

As mentioned, how it ended up at a riverbank in Maryland is anybody's guess. If the find location was near what is or what was a picnic or camping area, certainly events sponsored by or participated in by such groups in that time period seem possible.
In more wildly speculative thoughts, perhaps kids playing with grandpas old sword near the location ? Fearful thought, but not that it ever happened

none of us would ever have thought of such antics

Jeff and David, thank you so much for helping with this, and its always great hearing from you guys!!! Jeff, I hope it lets up a little bit on you soon.

All the best,
Jim

Or....WWI or II breaks out; "get that thing out of the house; throw it in the river !"

A mystery for sure .

Tom · 8th May 2009, 07:53 PM

nothing, I can't find one thing on this group

2nd May 2009, 08:07 PM	#5
Tom Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5	no success well, I have been diligently searching the www for the group and other things I have found while researching the town and I have had no success at all. I just wanted to let all know I'm still working on this and haven't forgotten about the post. I have a lot more info to work with now then what I started with thanks to y'all but it seams I'm spinning my wheels, I'm going to give it a couple days rest as my little brain is worn out right now. I'll update soon I hope and for sure if I stumble upon something relevant.

28th April 2009, 05:20 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	Hi Jeff, Excellent suggestion on the foreign fraternity groups, which I had not even thought of. The immigration in those post Civil War years well into the 1920's was unbelievable in volume, with so many nationalities represented. I know that some of my own relatives were among them in the 1870's and 80's. Great movie too!!! "The Red Violin" , I loved that movie and that really is what its all about, what an item has to tell you, the stories of its own history. As I watched that movie intently I realized that what we do is essentially antique weapon forensics Tom, Did you receive my email ? All best regards, Jim

28th April 2009, 09:21 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Here is a mention of the initials, unfortunately the links to the pictures do not work http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=uk Regards David

29th April 2009, 02:13 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	Excellent follow up there detective David!!!! Looks like Jeff's German based organization idea was well placed. It looks like the German imported blade combined with hilt components from sundry stocks from regalia outfitters and producers put together for this apparant organization of German American representation, is quite plausible. Since we know of at least one more example with this inscription and basic style, we know of the group in Columbus. Ohio in the 1890's. Key manufacturers based in Kalamazoo,Mich. Frank Henderson not unreasonably far away. As mentioned, how it ended up at a riverbank in Maryland is anybody's guess. If the find location was near what is or what was a picnic or camping area, certainly events sponsored by or participated in by such groups in that time period seem possible. In more wildly speculative thoughts, perhaps kids playing with grandpas old sword near the location ? Fearful thought, but not that it ever happened none of us would ever have thought of such antics Jeff and David, thank you so much for helping with this, and its always great hearing from you guys!!! Jeff, I hope it lets up a little bit on you soon. All the best, Jim

8th May 2009, 07:53 PM	#7
Tom Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5	nothing, I can't find one thing on this group