Tulwar-hilted kukri information

Emanuel · 25th April 2009, 03:07 PM

Great discussion folks!

On pages 83-86 of "Hindu Arms and Ritual, Arms and Armour from India 1400-1865" (2004) Elgood shows a number of south-western Indian swords of the Vijayanagara period, 7th century CE. Some of these are fairly large, their blades looking like precursors to the yataghan or sossoun-pata. Elgood includes pictures of two reliefs (8.13 Gana holding a [khukri-like] sword...Pellava, mid-seventh century; 8.21 Warrior...[holding a khukri-like sword] from the sixteenth century). Unfortuantely I cannot scan them at the moment, maybe someone else can until I can do so.

My point is that there is material to support the development of the khukri on the Indian subcontinent, where the forward recurve edge has precendece. I don't see any problem with both Mediterranean and Indian cultures developing similar blades. If we take the example fo the celtic, northern Europen sax, that same shape exists in Eastern European Thracian knives, and is found again in the Arabic shafra.

The Alexander and trade routes theories seem plausible to me, but sometimes different peoples come up with similar solutions to similar problems. The top-heavy forward recurve makes a good chopper, so it shows up where a compromise between an axe and a long blade was needed. Once martial strategies and arts changed, the shape lost popularity in favour of something longer and with a straight cutting edge, as in Europe.

Just some thoughts.

Emanuel · 25th April 2009, 03:15 PM

Hello Simon, about the khuda/khunda/kora debate, I recall Beoram (Nepali linguist, on IKRHS) posting a number of guides to Nepali words.

Among them was

"from Old Indo-Aryan (~Sanskrit) kshura 'razor' (cognate with Greek kshuron 'razor') >
*khura > "

This word may be the root of khukuri, but maybe it's also the root for what we call a "kora" in the West. Furthermore, it seems to me that in Nepali the sound "d" and "r" are, to a certain extent interchangeable (open to correction), as in "kothimora / kothimoda" or "kaudo / kauro". Maybe khuDa is not so farfetched for khuRa > kora?

More thoughts...

Emanuel

sirupate · 25th April 2009, 06:01 PM

Thanks Jim

Hello Emanuel,

Beoram is quite correct with the linguistic connection, but how relevent that is, I honestly do not know.

Khuda/Khunda is pronounced Coodah, the c as in coup, I don't know how the Kora pronunciation came about? Unless that is how its spelt or pronounced in India?

With kothimora it tends to be pronounced by Gurkhas kotiemora or kotimora. I must confess to never having seen it written Kothimoda in Nepal, or in England by a Nepali/Gurkha. Once again though Kothimoda could be an Indian or Tibetan interpretation?

Kaudi seems to be the most used term in Nepal from my experience.

I hope that is of some help, cheers Simon

25th April 2009, 06:01 PM	#3
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Thanks Jim Hello Emanuel, Beoram is quite correct with the linguistic connection, but how relevent that is, I honestly do not know. Khuda/Khunda is pronounced Coodah, the c as in coup, I don't know how the Kora pronunciation came about? Unless that is how its spelt or pronounced in India? With kothimora it tends to be pronounced by Gurkhas kotiemora or kotimora. I must confess to never having seen it written Kothimoda in Nepal, or in England by a Nepali/Gurkha. Once again though Kothimoda could be an Indian or Tibetan interpretation? Kaudi seems to be the most used term in Nepal from my experience. I hope that is of some help, cheers Simon Last edited by sirupate; 25th April 2009 at 06:23 PM.

25th April 2009, 03:07 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Great discussion folks! On pages 83-86 of "Hindu Arms and Ritual, Arms and Armour from India 1400-1865" (2004) Elgood shows a number of south-western Indian swords of the Vijayanagara period, 7th century CE. Some of these are fairly large, their blades looking like precursors to the yataghan or sossoun-pata. Elgood includes pictures of two reliefs (8.13 Gana holding a [khukri-like] sword...Pellava, mid-seventh century; 8.21 Warrior...[holding a khukri-like sword] from the sixteenth century). Unfortuantely I cannot scan them at the moment, maybe someone else can until I can do so. My point is that there is material to support the development of the khukri on the Indian subcontinent, where the forward recurve edge has precendece. I don't see any problem with both Mediterranean and Indian cultures developing similar blades. If we take the example fo the celtic, northern Europen sax, that same shape exists in Eastern European Thracian knives, and is found again in the Arabic shafra. The Alexander and trade routes theories seem plausible to me, but sometimes different peoples come up with similar solutions to similar problems. The top-heavy forward recurve makes a good chopper, so it shows up where a compromise between an axe and a long blade was needed. Once martial strategies and arts changed, the shape lost popularity in favour of something longer and with a straight cutting edge, as in Europe. Just some thoughts.

25th April 2009, 03:15 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello Simon, about the khuda/khunda/kora debate, I recall Beoram (Nepali linguist, on IKRHS) posting a number of guides to Nepali words. Among them was "from Old Indo-Aryan (~Sanskrit) kshura 'razor' (cognate with Greek kshuron 'razor') > *khura > " This word may be the root of khukuri, but maybe it's also the root for what we call a "kora" in the West. Furthermore, it seems to me that in Nepali the sound "d" and "r" are, to a certain extent interchangeable (open to correction), as in "kothimora / kothimoda" or "kaudo / kauro". Maybe khuDa is not so farfetched for khuRa > kora? More thoughts... Emanuel