Tulwar-hilted kukri information

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

In many places, there are vicious arguments about ethnicity, cultural heritage, roots of artefacts etc.
For example, there is a trend in modern Russia to define "cossaks' as a separate ethnos ( absurd, if you ask me). But they seriously claim that cossacks had separate ethnic origins, material culture and, of course, weapons. Per that view, war karabela and shashka are not Polish or Caucasian in origin, but rather genuine ancient weapons attributable to the distinct Cossack ethnos.
Not being familiar with the history of Nepal, I am just curious whether there are historical tensions in pinpointing their ethnic origin to Mongoloid or Hindu cultures? If this is the case, it might color the ascertainment of Kukri vs. Kora as the "national" weapon of Nepal.
I am not trying to throw oil on the fire, but unfortunately, far too often, partisan nationalistic views obscure and distort real history.
So, please put my mind to rest, that there is nothing of that nature in the contemporary Nepalese historical research.

Actually, lets leave this entirely counterproductive perspective out of this discussion. This type of rheotoric does little to serve the study of the history and development of weapons, while certain people seem to enjoy this kind of emotionally charged 'debate'.....better left for political editorial.

Didn't we just do this?

[Jim McDougall]

Just saw your post Simon....nicely put!!! Thank you for this very nicely handled response, and I have very much enjoyed your sound approach to the research you are doing, avoiding such volatile distractions.

All very best regards,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Actually, lets leave this entirely counterproductive perspective out of this discussion. This type of rheotoric does little to serve the study of the history and development of weapons, while certain people seem to enjoy this kind of emotionally charged 'debate'.....better left for political editorial.

Didn't we just do this?

That´s right, Jim. To begin with, we must question the european ethnocentric, ideologically biased and emotionally charged 'theories' from the 19th Century (a real theory must have some logic structure and must be supported in facts showing a causal relation in time and space), to make a more scientific approach. European influences did exist, but they have to be demostrated in every case. I don't think in the future, with more advances in archeological discoveries, we cannot find some of those evidences we need. Alexander presence is a possible, but to me not a probable, cause of the down curved blades in India or Nepal. Is more consistent the probability of a development in the indian subcontinent, as Manolo said, with or without foreign influences of some kind. The roman presence in India is more consistent in any case, since although they did not invaded India, they had a continuos and relatively intense commercial contact with it, not to mention South India, which had intense contacts with the arabian peninsula from the most antique pre-islamic times, and we must remember that Yemen was an important producer of swords from which we do not have much information. This is a more plausible source of influences, and not a transitory passing of an army. Also, we have to take on account that the goorkha seem to have carried in their invassion into Nepal the kora, a down curved blade which seems to have a very different origin that of the indian area. I don't believe this kind of blade can be also attributed to greek influences. The more antique roots of our world culture and the incredible inmense commercial routes in the most remote times are suprising us every day with each new discovery in this direction. This is science.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Jens Nordlunde]

I don't know from where the kukri origins, and it may have taken a long time for it to get the form it has to day, but I have see a picture of a stone relief from a temple in south India. On the relief you see a row of soldiers with kukri like 'swords/daggers'. Sorry I can't show it, as I don't remember where I saw it, probably on Google.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Actually, lets leave this entirely counterproductive perspective out of this discussion. This type of rheotoric does little to serve the study of the history and development of weapons, while certain people seem to enjoy this kind of emotionally charged 'debate'.....better left for political editorial.

Didn't we just do this?

I agree completely, Jim.

Ariel, let's not go there, please.

[Gavin Nugent]

G'day guys,

I have been following this thread with great interest and been doing some reading of my own.
Please view the image attached as another possible theory behind the origins of the Kukri.
It could well have started it's life as a working blade much like the sickle mold found in China that dates from the 4th century BC.
Just some thoughts to further ponder as the moulding does look much like some of the early kukri, that is being long and narrow by profile.
The image came from a book published by the Australian Arts exhibition Corporation that was a reproduction of the same book published in China the year before, being 1976. The book was bought to print when the Archaeological finds of China travelled to Australia in 1977.

Gav