Mid to Late 16th Century Patrons for Paper Cartridges

celtan · 23rd April 2009, 06:46 AM

Hi Guys,

Tow was also used to remove the residues from the pan and flint after ever 4 to 5 shots, otherwise the left-behind goo would prevent the BP in the pan from igniting. We still use it for this very same purpose.

Best

M

BTW: Nice tomb statue...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Hello Michael,

Thank you for answeing my questions, and for the added pictures.

It seems for everything we learn, we have two more questions!
These patrons are something else I'd like to try making.

Regarding the tow for cleaning a barrel Michael, I am afraid I must beg to differ. In the 18th, 19th, and 20th century, tow has been used for cleaning barrels. (before that time I do not know)
I still have two fairly large rolls that belonged to my grandfather.

To clean a muzzle-loading gun, it is wound onto a tow-worm or a cleaning jag, and when wrapped on tightly, it does a very nice job of cleaning, and does not leave debris behind. I still clean my flint and matchlock gun with it.

I can not say that the tow in the pouch was indeed for cleaning, or for use as wadding though, so you may well be spot on in your belief!

Thank you for sharing these wonderfully ancient and fascinating items with us all. They are another small window into another age!

with best wishes,

Richard.

Pukka Bundook · 23rd April 2009, 02:12 PM

Quite right, Celtan.

Cleaning the barrel isn't the only use for tow, Use as wadding, and for general cleaning was common....and still is as you state.

Cheers,

Richard.

Matchlock · 23rd April 2009, 03:57 PM

Hi Manuel and Richard,

Of course you are both right, but I forgot to mention that the tow in the pouch of my frog consists of many short fibers, each only ca. 5 cm (2 in.) long.

Best,

Michael

Pukka Bundook · 25th April 2009, 02:49 PM

Ah! Thank you Michael.
That Does make a difference!!

Probably wadding then as you alrady stated. Would be much easier to pluck out a small wad of it, than if it were in long strands.

Thanks again for the photos!

R.

Matchlock · 25th April 2009, 04:30 PM

Hello Richard,

Interesting enough, I sometimes extracted wadding plugs and felt plugs out of some loaded smoothbore flintlock barrels over the decades. They were placed on top of the ball to obviously keep it from rolling out.

In 17th century loaded military barrels I sometimes discovered very fragile wadding pieces from newspapers or books, especially in wheel-lock pistols. They may have been used to form the paper cartridges. A few torn and crumbled pieces of printed paper I found in an untouched leather holster for a long wheel-lock pistol of ca. 1620; the text was German, printed in early 17th century types, with the date 1621 clearly visible. This must have been from a paper cartridge because it contained traces of black powder and was found on the bottom of a lateral compartment containing a wooden block drilled for four paper cartriges, the wood heavily damaged and with considerable remains of black powder on the inside walls.

Even for me who has actually seen and handled a great lot of unique things, this was so unbelievable that I made a photo documentation (sadly not of the paper fragments) which I attach. The length of the holster was 64 cm, the caliber of the bores ca. 12 mm each.

This considered, I now doubt myself that those short strands of tow were actually used as a wadding because the paper of the cartridges would have served that purpose. I think that Manuel's thesis is more convincing than my own and that tow was used for cleaning the priming pan of the match- or wheel-lock musket.

Extremely demanding, these discussions, thank you so much!

With all my best wishes,
Michael

Matchlock · 25th April 2009, 04:32 PM

The rest.

Matchlock · 24th March 2012, 04:35 PM

... for officers of the Trabanten-Leibgarde (bodyguards) of the Electors of Saxony, ca. 1580.
As you may have noticed on one on the samples in my collection, all Saxon patrons open by a shift button on the underside while Nuremberg or Ausgburg productions open by a push button on the front.

Photos taken by the author in the collection of famous Burg Eltz.

m

Matchlock · 24th May 2014, 05:15 PM

Please also see my threads on wheellock spanners 1520-1650:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...llock+spanners

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...l-lock+spanner

Best,
Michael

23rd April 2009, 03:57 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Manuel and Richard, Of course you are both right, but I forgot to mention that the tow in the pouch of my frog consists of many short fibers, each only ca. 5 cm (2 in.) long. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 23rd April 2009 at 04:44 PM.

25th April 2009, 04:30 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hello Richard, Interesting enough, I sometimes extracted wadding plugs and felt plugs out of some loaded smoothbore flintlock barrels over the decades. They were placed on top of the ball to obviously keep it from rolling out. In 17th century loaded military barrels I sometimes discovered very fragile wadding pieces from newspapers or books, especially in wheel-lock pistols. They may have been used to form the paper cartridges. A few torn and crumbled pieces of printed paper I found in an untouched leather holster for a long wheel-lock pistol of ca. 1620; the text was German, printed in early 17th century types, with the date 1621 clearly visible. This must have been from a paper cartridge because it contained traces of black powder and was found on the bottom of a lateral compartment containing a wooden block drilled for four paper cartriges, the wood heavily damaged and with considerable remains of black powder on the inside walls. Even for me who has actually seen and handled a great lot of unique things, this was so unbelievable that I made a photo documentation (sadly not of the paper fragments) which I attach. The length of the holster was 64 cm, the caliber of the bores ca. 12 mm each. This considered, I now doubt myself that those short strands of tow were actually used as a wadding because the paper of the cartridges would have served that purpose. I think that Manuel's thesis is more convincing than my own and that tow was used for cleaning the priming pan of the match- or wheel-lock musket. Extremely demanding, these discussions, thank you so much! With all my best wishes, Michael Attached Images

25th April 2009, 04:32 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The rest. Attached Images

24th March 2012, 04:35 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Top Quality Patrons, Etched and Inlaid With Bone ... for officers of the Trabanten-Leibgarde (bodyguards) of the Electors of Saxony, ca. 1580. As you may have noticed on one on the samples in my collection, all Saxon patrons open by a shift button on the underside while Nuremberg or Ausgburg productions open by a push button on the front. Photos taken by the author in the collection of famous Burg Eltz. m Attached Images

24th May 2014, 05:15 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Please also see my threads on wheellock spanners 1520-1650: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...-lock+spanners http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...llock+spanners http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...l-lock+spanner Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 24th May 2014 at 05:30 PM.

23rd April 2009, 02:12 PM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Quite right, Celtan. Cleaning the barrel isn't the only use for tow, Use as wadding, and for general cleaning was common....and still is as you state. Cheers, Richard.

25th April 2009, 02:49 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Ah! Thank you Michael. That Does make a difference!! Probably wadding then as you alrady stated. Would be much easier to pluck out a small wad of it, than if it were in long strands. Thanks again for the photos! R.