Stone club.

Rick · 18th April 2009, 10:47 PM

A true 'Waterworld' , Tim .

But ....

Without Dennis Hopper ..

Tim Simmons · 17th June 2009, 04:45 PM

After a great deal of rambling and learning we have a conculsion to this club. I would like to thank you all for many hours of frustration and great entertainment.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591

There is the possibility that it may even be Ona Patagonia which would make it a very rare item indeed if it is not already.

katana · 19th June 2009, 08:37 PM

Stupidly, I posted this comment on this thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591 when it should be on this one

Hi Tim,
the illustration of the 'stone headed' club shows that it is mounted to the side of the shaft......yours is mounted on top. So I am not so certain that we can ID yours from the drawing.

Regards David

Tim Simmons · 30th October 2009, 08:56 PM

I have received a reply from the British Museum Collection Enquiries. This I have to say was rather disappointing. To be fair the curators were only working from not the best photographs. They are also not the personnel that have daily access to the less distinctive items in the miles of boxes in the Museum store building, which is four stories high. In the very early 1980s I worked as a registrar in the African department {pre computer, pen and ink drawing of items in the collection} I could have told you it was not African. The letter is here for you all to read. It is some what sitting on the fence I feel. I am most reluctant to leave the item with them, also to expect every box of all geographic areas to be opened to match materials is a little unreasonable. So I have decided to tackle the problem another way.

Today I kept an appointment with a Dr Peter Gasson working in the Jodrell laboratory at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew. Three samples of wood were taken from the haft of the club with the minimum of damage. There and then from the transverse sample I was shown through the microscope that although light to handle it is a hard wood. The work will be on going so I expect a final analysis in about a months time. This procedure may not answer all the questions on the club. If only a genus is identified then I could still be no further on in the hunt for an origin however I am feeling confident that we are not look at something like Oak. On the other hand it could well be an unknown species, all in the air really. I am wondering if it is some kind of palm wood. I really do hope I get somewhere? keeping my fingers crossed as this is going to cost 3/5th of what I paid for the club. What ever the result good or bad I will keep you all informed.

Bryan.H · 1st November 2009, 03:13 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if this club originated from Australia...

Here's a link showing a modern aboriginal elder making a stone hatchet.

http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/index.html#restoreaxe

The technique of binding is very similar. With regards to the 'telegraph' wire, this type of insulated wire is similar to that used in old houses over here, and the aboriginal people are famous for their ingenuity in combining new materials with ancient technological methods (i.e. flint-knapping glass of broken beer bottles to make spear heads in remote areas up to the 1960's and later).

I can't say for sure it's an 100% Australian Aboriginal artefact, but it would not look out of place in the Australian Aboriginal material culture of the early 20th century.

Atlantia · 1st November 2009, 03:58 PM

Comming in rather late here.
Looks very neolithic to me. A poor flint or /often refered to as chert (sometimes not entirely accurately).
I find the simple shaping also reminds me of neolithic tools.
Any chance its a victorian 'authentic' rehafting of a British Neolithic club?
I've seen EBA stuff remounted in the 19thC.

Tim Simmons · 1st November 2009, 08:19 PM

If it is Australian or even Australasian the the analysis should have no problem in finding the answer. It is what I have thought right from the start. The problem lies in the cell structure of a genus that is common to vast areas of the world like Oak. I bet the wood is from the southern hemisphere anyway.

17th June 2009, 04:45 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Thanks After a great deal of rambling and learning we have a conculsion to this club. I would like to thank you all for many hours of frustration and great entertainment. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591 There is the possibility that it may even be Ona Patagonia which would make it a very rare item indeed if it is not already. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 18th June 2009 at 09:08 AM.

30th October 2009, 08:56 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Up Date. I have received a reply from the British Museum Collection Enquiries. This I have to say was rather disappointing. To be fair the curators were only working from not the best photographs. They are also not the personnel that have daily access to the less distinctive items in the miles of boxes in the Museum store building, which is four stories high. In the very early 1980s I worked as a registrar in the African department {pre computer, pen and ink drawing of items in the collection} I could have told you it was not African. The letter is here for you all to read. It is some what sitting on the fence I feel. I am most reluctant to leave the item with them, also to expect every box of all geographic areas to be opened to match materials is a little unreasonable. So I have decided to tackle the problem another way. Today I kept an appointment with a Dr Peter Gasson working in the Jodrell laboratory at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew. Three samples of wood were taken from the haft of the club with the minimum of damage. There and then from the transverse sample I was shown through the microscope that although light to handle it is a hard wood. The work will be on going so I expect a final analysis in about a months time. This procedure may not answer all the questions on the club. If only a genus is identified then I could still be no further on in the hunt for an origin however I am feeling confident that we are not look at something like Oak. On the other hand it could well be an unknown species, all in the air really. I am wondering if it is some kind of palm wood. I really do hope I get somewhere? keeping my fingers crossed as this is going to cost 3/5th of what I paid for the club. What ever the result good or bad I will keep you all informed. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 30th October 2009 at 09:07 PM.

18th April 2009, 10:47 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	A true 'Waterworld' , Tim . But .... Without Dennis Hopper ..

19th June 2009, 08:37 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Stupidly, I posted this comment on this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9591 when it should be on this one Hi Tim, the illustration of the 'stone headed' club shows that it is mounted to the side of the shaft......yours is mounted on top. So I am not so certain that we can ID yours from the drawing. Regards David

1st November 2009, 03:13 PM	#5
Bryan.H Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 51	I wouldn't be surprised if this club originated from Australia... Here's a link showing a modern aboriginal elder making a stone hatchet. http://earthsci.org/aboriginal/index.html#restoreaxe The technique of binding is very similar. With regards to the 'telegraph' wire, this type of insulated wire is similar to that used in old houses over here, and the aboriginal people are famous for their ingenuity in combining new materials with ancient technological methods (i.e. flint-knapping glass of broken beer bottles to make spear heads in remote areas up to the 1960's and later). I can't say for sure it's an 100% Australian Aboriginal artefact, but it would not look out of place in the Australian Aboriginal material culture of the early 20th century.

1st November 2009, 03:58 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Comming in rather late here. Looks very neolithic to me. A poor flint or /often refered to as chert (sometimes not entirely accurately). I find the simple shaping also reminds me of neolithic tools. Any chance its a victorian 'authentic' rehafting of a British Neolithic club? I've seen EBA stuff remounted in the 19thC.

1st November 2009, 08:19 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	If it is Australian or even Australasian the the analysis should have no problem in finding the answer. It is what I have thought right from the start. The problem lies in the cell structure of a genus that is common to vast areas of the world like Oak. I bet the wood is from the southern hemisphere anyway.