Filipino/Moro Martial Arts question...

Maurice · 16th April 2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Maurice, i was really responding mostly to KuKulz' statement in his original post.

OK David, I missed it.

t_c · 16th June 2009, 05:43 AM

Hi - Interesting topic, this is a little aside, but I thought I'd offer my two cents about the term "Kali" as I think it has been developing some false associations. These are just my own opinions/observations and I know these discussions can be contentious, so please understand that I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. (I'm open to being corrected.

)

The term Kali is not a tell-all as regards to where a style is from: i.e. Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. I've never heard anyone associated with PTK say that the style originates from the southern Philippines or is a Moro art. Personally I see the adoption of the term "Kali" for more cultural reasons: would you really want your nation's traditional martial arts referenced in the language of a colonial power? If I remember correctly Tuhon Leo Gaje first made this point during one of his pre-seminar talks.

In trying to recollect a discussion somewhere else in the binary stream, I believe it was said that Dan Inosanto was the first person who used the term in print in his book on FMA and then it took off in common usage from there. The term may be a fairly modern one.

I live in the US, and here, the only style that I have ever seen that I would consider to have influence from Silat is Villabrille Largusa Kali, and mainly because they use "cross-over" footwork similar to Sempok/Dembok in Silat (one foot steps in front or back of the other - from my experience a big no-no in other FMA - never cross your feet). Talking with an instructor of mine regarding that style, it appears that they do orient some of their movements towards dealing with heavier weapons which could be an indicator of Keris, etc (my inference - not my teacher's). But then again, the history page posted on the Villabrille Largusa site talks about Villabrille fighting a Moro Prince who practices Silat/Kuntao....

So if you are searching for info on Moro arts I would caution you in relying on the term "Kali" alone.

I hope someone has some good info for you though - I often been curious about the same subject. I think you are on the right track though with the connection between movement and light vs heavy weapon: very different games. Another avenue of research may be Borneo....

KuKulzA28 · 29th June 2009, 11:22 AM

Topic resurrection...

I was watching Mr. Cecil Quirino's "Crossing the Sulu Seas"... while it is somewhat old and patchy(?) it's a nice little documentary. It is interesting that Sali learned his martial art from a master in Sabah... which is on the northern tip of Borneo island... Are there not quite a few Moros there, adjacent to the Sultanate of Brunei? Perhaps you are right in suggesting Borneo as a place to research as well.

As MABAGANI said at the 14th post on topic: Barung(s) for you

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

btw After studying Tausug Silat and the traditional use of the barung, I see no relation to what I've heard repeated over and over among some eskrima and arnis practitioners and the short stick or close range fighting systems, that their art is based on the barung, its been passed on as truth for as long as I can remember but needs a good hard look at reality among FMA teachers.

-------------------------------------------------

By the way... does anyone know which Filipino martial arts have the Samar Talibong/Garab as their main sword/bolo?
I know that Pulahan-Derobio Eskrima has the Leyte Sansibar as it's main weapon... and while many Leyte-folk are Waray like on Samar, the Sansibar is a very different blade than the heavier talibon/garab...

Dimasalang · 29th June 2009, 09:07 PM

Im not a believer in the term "Kali" also. It is a made up word...and now it has taken on many different associations. Also, to call Eskrima or Arnis "Kali" is not correct...this is my own personal belief. Eskrima/Arnis is a system developed by Christian Filipinos(most particularly from the Visayan region). To understand more you have to look deeper in history...and not necessarily FMA history but overall history. Everyone fails to realize the Moros were ruthless radical 'pirates'...and they dealt heavily in kidnapping for slavery and slave trading up until the Americans took over. Even in present day 2009, there is still instances of Moros kidnapping for slavery, particularly of christian Filipinos..it is in their culture to do so as some of them believe it is their religious right to do so. Looking back, one particular event where Visayan warriors trained in a type of system to fight the Moros was documented by the Spanish...look up Captain Juan de Chaves when he and 300 Spaniards along with 1000 Visayan warriors sailed to Mindanao to invade and take over Zamboanga in 1635. Fort Pilar was established, and from that period on, was nothing but battles and wars between the Spanish/Visayans and the Moros in Zamboanga history. It is important to keep in mind, the Spanish 'claimed' the Philippine islands, but they did not have full control of the southern region. Thousands of Moros have died fighting the Spanish, but they were in fact still undefeated by the Spanish. The Spanish prohibited 'Freedom of Religion'. If the Spanish had control over the Moros, there would be no more Philippine Moros...they all would have been killed off or converted to Catholics.

Much later, different Eskrima systems were developed and established by Christian Filipinos to protect their family, personal property, and land from these marauding Moros who would invade their coastal villages. It was not until the late 18 to early 1900s when these systems began to be documented and recorded. Being Cebu and southern Visayan regions were the major hot beds for piracy, you can see and understand why and how a martial art system came about and developed more drastically then any other part of the Philippines.

I just have to say also, we Filipinos are a proud race, and being of a mixed cross culture, we tend to try and find ourselves...meaning, trying to find the origin of our roots on what is authentic and original...what is truly Filipino in origin. And that sometimes means trying to meat out the Spanish and American influence. Some going as far as trying to eliminate Spanish terms, changing the name of Philippines, or bringing back the pre-spanish native writing script of Alibata/Baybayin...makes sense as to why some FMAs do not like the Spanish terms 'eskrima' or 'arnis'. The Filipino martial artist who are coming up with these new terms, like Kali and PRE-Spanish terms, are only trying to establish or set themselves apart as being so-called 'original and authentic' and purely Filipino with no outside influence(since any type of influence may seem unoriginal, mixed, and diluted)...this is nearly impossible. We have 300+ years of Spanish influence that can not be ignored, along with 100 years of American influence...and I dont see any type of system that has survived for 400+ years that can be slated as being 'original'. Unlike other cultures like the Chinese and Japanese, one thing we Filipinos lacked severely, recording and documentation in writing. Was there a Moro fighting system?...I am sure there was, but the "terms" and specific words for them within the Philippines are long gone, forgotten, and not remembered. In reality, there is no Kampilan, Kris, or Barong fighting system in Eskrima...like I mentioned, Eskrima is a martial art developed by Christians, it would make no sense for them to be using Muslim weaponry. I know many Eskrima banners carry the Moro Muslim weapon symbols...as I believe these symbols are there to honor and recognize their fight with the Moros and against these types of weapons...nothing else, they do not practice with any those weapons. And if they do use those weapons and call their art Eskrima, then that is something new and/or should be questioned. If you are wondering more about some type of Moro fighting system; as others have said, look to Borneo...at one point in the past; Sulu, Palawan, Mindanao, and Borneo were all seen as one and the same region. Many of the Moro Filipinos of the south associate and relate themselves more with Borneo then they do with the general Filipino population of the north and central regions.

Dimasalang · 29th June 2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

By the way... does anyone know which Filipino martial arts have the Samar Talibong/Garab as their main sword/bolo?
I know that Pulahan-Derobio Eskrima has the Leyte Sansibar as it's main weapon... and while many Leyte-folk are Waray like on Samar, the Sansibar is a very different blade than the heavier talibon/garab...

The Pulahan Derobio group "should" have incorporated the Talibong/Garab in to their system. I know this group well as its main HQ comes out of San Diego and I have been in a couple of their seminars. I believe they just don't know well enough or lack the weapons to train with them...they use what every other FMA has for training(a piece of aluminum).

In regards to other eskrima groups. Well, going by the famous Blind Princess fable...being she was from the Ganadara mountain region of Samar, she was a Pulahan. Her two famous renowned students were Floro Villabrille and Felicisimo Dizon. Dizon is still a great mystery in the Eskrima world, not much is really known about him...it is believed he was born in the 1890s and much older then all the other Grandmasters or masters of the early Eskrima era. He would later become the teacher of Antonio Ilustrisimo and Angel Cabales at the piers in Tondo Manila(~1930s?)...Tondo is the toughest and worst section of Manila even today. I believe they were not really hell bent on having precise weapons like the Garab/Talibong for training...so I really doubt their systems today incorporates them even though that is possibly the sword they used originally. Either way, you might want to check out any one of those systems to see their blade oriented techniques and if they may be still applicable to a Garab/Talibong. Hope that helps.

Tatang Ilustrisimo in his 90s demonstrating with live blades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnx0NHnekQ

ThePepperSkull · 31st August 2009, 07:32 AM

I am very interested in looking into how Moro Silat differs from modern eskrima/arnis.

As a practitioner of Filipino Eskrima and of Indonesian Silat, I can definitely see the difference between those fighting systems. The Eskrima style I learned was from my instructor's family style, updated by him after he studied Lameco Escrima under the late Edgar Sulite. Escrima/arnis/kali, at least under the lameco school of thought, covers a series of ranges hence the name (which is short for 'Largo, Medio, Corto' or 'long, medium, short' range). Generally the stances in modern FMA are practiced standing up on both legs, shoulder-width apart. There is a focus on footwork (like many, if not most sword or weapons based fighting systems) and there seems to be no shortage of stabbing motions taught for the use of bladed weapons. Trapping/sticking/checking hands also seems to be a common thing being practiced among us arnisadors as well. Our strikes tend to be quick and we focus on optimizing the efficacy of our strikes: in power, recorvery time, and where we aim for to be more effective. A strike like the Abaniko, or 'fan strike' as many call it, seems to be one that comes to mind to characterize what I have described.

As opposed to that, the indonesian-based Silat I've practiced (Indonesian Mande Muda and some bruneian silat suffian bela diri) has a focus on what it deems effective but the focus differs. There is a focus on range, but also a focus on stances. Silat practitioners train to fight standing up, kneeling with one knee down, on both their knees, and in many instances sitting down as well. I was taught that this was because many areas, depending on where the style of Silat is practiced and was fought, there was rougher terrain. To fight standing up in a muddy area or area where there was loose soil would meant that sometimes you would need to fight if you slipped and fell down, because your opponent would not hesitate to strike while you were down (nor should he hesitate). To prepare oneself to fight in a compromised position, then, could be seen as a necessity depending on the area. I've also noticed that as opposed to the more quick, rapid recovery strikes of escrima, Silat prefers an array of wide sweeping motions in their weapons strikes intended for deep penetrative cuts. Longer blades have none or close to no use of stabbing motions in contrast to escrima, although shorter blade training in silat does focus a lot on stabbing.

Does anyone on here practice Moro Silat? How do the weapons application of your arts differ from what I have described that is common among Indonesian Silat and Filipino Arnis/Escrima?

(As a side note, I know many people have some hangups about how authentic the term 'kali' is, the general consensus being 'not at all', but many arts under the 'kali' banner are just as effective as any art labelled under the name of escrima or arnis that I have seen. Is Pekiti Tirsia any less effective since it changed its name from Pekiti Tirsia Arnis to Pekiti Tirsia kali? I think not and in that respect I have no prejudices about the name. If it's effective it's worth learning in my opinion. Although from a historical standpoint I understand your concerns about its now widespread usage.)

Rick · 31st August 2009, 02:21 PM

Just a question here; have any of you seen the staged combat sequences from Crossing Sulu Seas , Cecil Quirino's vid ?

Any comments if you have ?

David · 31st August 2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Does anyone on here practice Moro Silat? How do the weapons application of your arts differ from what I have described that is common among Indonesian Silat and Filipino Arnis/Escrima?

I am unaware of anything called "Moro Silat". AFAIK "silat" is not a term associated with the Moro arts. I'm i wrong about this?

KuKulzA28 · 31st August 2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I am unaware of anything called "Moro Silat". AFAIK "silat" is not a term associated with the Moro arts. I'm i wrong about this?

Their neighbors and cousins in Brunei, Sabah, and Kalimantan call their fighting arts Silat I think. Their long-term enemies and distant relations to the north in Luzon and the Visayas call it Eskrima/Arnis/Kali. Since the Moros are culturally closer to the Borneo melayu, I guess it could be safe to refer to it as Moro silat. Though if we knew what they comonly called it themselves, we'd probably call it that... whatever it is.

ThePepperSkull · 31st August 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I am unaware of anything called "Moro Silat". AFAIK "silat" is not a term associated with the Moro arts. I'm i wrong about this?

The Moro martial arts are referred to as either "Silat", "Kuntaw"/"Kuntao", or a combination of both. The names of the style come from the tribe (for example a silat player from Basilan would practice "Silat Saudara Yakan" at home). I've heard that calling it 'filipino silat' is incorrect as they never swore allegiance to king felipe of spain and would rather have it referred to as 'mindanao silat' in general terms. Calling it 'Muslim silat' is also incorrect AFAIK, as many seem to acknowledge that the art was there before the arrival of the muslims. For discussion purposes I will call it Moro Silat to describe it as the art of the bangsamoro people. A big difference between moro silat and indonesian silat is that It's more of a private affair in mindanao rather than a nationally acknowledged activity like in indonesia. The teacher-student dynamic is more individual and less group lesson focused and generally the styles passed down are between family members. In this respect it is very difficult to find an authentic Silat/Kuntaw teacher, much less find one who would be willing to teach outside of his bloodline or extended family. As a result I have seen very little of these styles, but have seen enough to draw certain conclusions.

The Moro martial arts seem to have a closer relationship stylistically to that of Indonesian and Bruneian Silat. Footwork is similar to indonesian silat, as are some stances when comparing to how different modern Arnis is. Blade movement seems, superficially, more similar to bruneian Silat. Again, these are conclusians I have drawn from observing what very little I have seen of Moro Martial Arts.

The Moro martial arts seem older and more traditional to me, whereas visayan/luzon based escrima/arnis has a lot of european influence. The footwork in modern arnis is very similar to styles like Portugese Jogo De Pau. I may be digressing from the main topic, but as a side note I should add that Jogo De Pau is very recent, having been first recorded in history around the 1910's. It's a long stick art primarily, with a significant portion of training dedicated to short stick work in place of a sword, much like Arnis. here is an example of some Jogo de pau sparring. The basic strikes, blocks, and footwork seen in Arnis can be seen here as well, although arnis' footwork is less linear and more angular because of the S.E.A. influence. Arnis also employs the use of 'sticky', or trapping hands: possibly the influence of the chinese/taiwanese martial arts or perhaps even Indian martial arts with their use of a katar in the non-sword hand. We move in similar ways when we have a knife or no weapon in the non-sword hand.

ThePepperSkull · 24th February 2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

As opposed to that, the indonesian-based Silat I've practiced (Indonesian Mande Muda and some bruneian silat suffian bela diri) has a focus on what it deems effective but the focus differs.

I made an error in this post. I meant to type out "Harimau", but I think I may have been watching a suffian bela diri video on youtube while typing this and it got into my head as I typed. Apologies all around!

I have also replied to this thread to showcase a couple of videos. the first is of Telesporo SubingSubing, a lesser-known martial artist in the FMA community. Mr. SubingSubing comes from Mindanao and some say that he taught a certain Mr. John Lacoste (who later settled in california and ended up teaching Mr Dan Inosanto) his style of fighting (The name of which has been lost and which many have dubbed simply as 'Moro-moro style'). I post this because I believe this is some of the very few footage we have access to in terms of Moro fighting systems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNentRsIkWE

And here we see Manong Lacoste performing a very similar from to that of his predecessor, Telesporo SubingSubing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpsGcT5j2Vg

It's said that Lacoste was a sailor in Mindanao when he met and trained under SubingSubing. I thought it was interesting enough to share with you gentlemen. Hopefully it will give us all more insight into how these blades were used.

Rick · 24th February 2010, 05:26 PM

I see definite similarities to the footage in Cecil's documentary .
Thanks for this .

kai · 26th February 2010, 08:02 AM

Quote:

I have also replied to this thread to showcase a couple of videos. the first is of Telesporo SubingSubing, a lesser-known martial artist in the FMA community. Mr. SubingSubing comes from Mindanao and some say that he taught a certain Mr. John Lacoste (who later settled in california and ended up teaching Mr Dan Inosanto) his style of fighting (The name of which has been lost and which many have dubbed simply as 'Moro-moro style').

Well, this looks very Visayan to me. (BTW, I love the way he moves!)

AFAIK, Telesporo SubingSubing came from Balamban, Cebu. There are some old Visayan outposts on Mindanao and during the last century many Visayans settled throughout Mindanao. From all accounts there is no open teaching of any traditional Moro MA/Silat on this island (if any); the Sulu archipelago might be a better place to look for genuine Moro MA but even there you'd have to be careful not to run into Visayan MA nowadays...

Regards,
Kai

29th June 2009, 09:07 PM	#4
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Im not a believer in the term "Kali" also. It is a made up word...and now it has taken on many different associations. Also, to call Eskrima or Arnis "Kali" is not correct...this is my own personal belief. Eskrima/Arnis is a system developed by Christian Filipinos(most particularly from the Visayan region). To understand more you have to look deeper in history...and not necessarily FMA history but overall history. Everyone fails to realize the Moros were ruthless radical 'pirates'...and they dealt heavily in kidnapping for slavery and slave trading up until the Americans took over. Even in present day 2009, there is still instances of Moros kidnapping for slavery, particularly of christian Filipinos..it is in their culture to do so as some of them believe it is their religious right to do so. Looking back, one particular event where Visayan warriors trained in a type of system to fight the Moros was documented by the Spanish...look up Captain Juan de Chaves when he and 300 Spaniards along with 1000 Visayan warriors sailed to Mindanao to invade and take over Zamboanga in 1635. Fort Pilar was established, and from that period on, was nothing but battles and wars between the Spanish/Visayans and the Moros in Zamboanga history. It is important to keep in mind, the Spanish 'claimed' the Philippine islands, but they did not have full control of the southern region. Thousands of Moros have died fighting the Spanish, but they were in fact still undefeated by the Spanish. The Spanish prohibited 'Freedom of Religion'. If the Spanish had control over the Moros, there would be no more Philippine Moros...they all would have been killed off or converted to Catholics. Much later, different Eskrima systems were developed and established by Christian Filipinos to protect their family, personal property, and land from these marauding Moros who would invade their coastal villages. It was not until the late 18 to early 1900s when these systems began to be documented and recorded. Being Cebu and southern Visayan regions were the major hot beds for piracy, you can see and understand why and how a martial art system came about and developed more drastically then any other part of the Philippines. I just have to say also, we Filipinos are a proud race, and being of a mixed cross culture, we tend to try and find ourselves...meaning, trying to find the origin of our roots on what is authentic and original...what is truly Filipino in origin. And that sometimes means trying to meat out the Spanish and American influence. Some going as far as trying to eliminate Spanish terms, changing the name of Philippines, or bringing back the pre-spanish native writing script of Alibata/Baybayin...makes sense as to why some FMAs do not like the Spanish terms 'eskrima' or 'arnis'. The Filipino martial artist who are coming up with these new terms, like Kali and PRE-Spanish terms, are only trying to establish or set themselves apart as being so-called 'original and authentic' and purely Filipino with no outside influence(since any type of influence may seem unoriginal, mixed, and diluted)...this is nearly impossible. We have 300+ years of Spanish influence that can not be ignored, along with 100 years of American influence...and I dont see any type of system that has survived for 400+ years that can be slated as being 'original'. Unlike other cultures like the Chinese and Japanese, one thing we Filipinos lacked severely, recording and documentation in writing. Was there a Moro fighting system?...I am sure there was, but the "terms" and specific words for them within the Philippines are long gone, forgotten, and not remembered. In reality, there is no Kampilan, Kris, or Barong fighting system in Eskrima...like I mentioned, Eskrima is a martial art developed by Christians, it would make no sense for them to be using Muslim weaponry. I know many Eskrima banners carry the Moro Muslim weapon symbols...as I believe these symbols are there to honor and recognize their fight with the Moros and against these types of weapons...nothing else, they do not practice with any those weapons. And if they do use those weapons and call their art Eskrima, then that is something new and/or should be questioned. If you are wondering more about some type of Moro fighting system; as others have said, look to Borneo...at one point in the past; Sulu, Palawan, Mindanao, and Borneo were all seen as one and the same region. Many of the Moro Filipinos of the south associate and relate themselves more with Borneo then they do with the general Filipino population of the north and central regions. Last edited by Dimasalang; 29th June 2009 at 09:20 PM.

31st August 2009, 07:32 AM	#6
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	I am very interested in looking into how Moro Silat differs from modern eskrima/arnis. As a practitioner of Filipino Eskrima and of Indonesian Silat, I can definitely see the difference between those fighting systems. The Eskrima style I learned was from my instructor's family style, updated by him after he studied Lameco Escrima under the late Edgar Sulite. Escrima/arnis/kali, at least under the lameco school of thought, covers a series of ranges hence the name (which is short for 'Largo, Medio, Corto' or 'long, medium, short' range). Generally the stances in modern FMA are practiced standing up on both legs, shoulder-width apart. There is a focus on footwork (like many, if not most sword or weapons based fighting systems) and there seems to be no shortage of stabbing motions taught for the use of bladed weapons. Trapping/sticking/checking hands also seems to be a common thing being practiced among us arnisadors as well. Our strikes tend to be quick and we focus on optimizing the efficacy of our strikes: in power, recorvery time, and where we aim for to be more effective. A strike like the Abaniko, or 'fan strike' as many call it, seems to be one that comes to mind to characterize what I have described. As opposed to that, the indonesian-based Silat I've practiced (Indonesian Mande Muda and some bruneian silat suffian bela diri) has a focus on what it deems effective but the focus differs. There is a focus on range, but also a focus on stances. Silat practitioners train to fight standing up, kneeling with one knee down, on both their knees, and in many instances sitting down as well. I was taught that this was because many areas, depending on where the style of Silat is practiced and was fought, there was rougher terrain. To fight standing up in a muddy area or area where there was loose soil would meant that sometimes you would need to fight if you slipped and fell down, because your opponent would not hesitate to strike while you were down (nor should he hesitate). To prepare oneself to fight in a compromised position, then, could be seen as a necessity depending on the area. I've also noticed that as opposed to the more quick, rapid recovery strikes of escrima, Silat prefers an array of wide sweeping motions in their weapons strikes intended for deep penetrative cuts. Longer blades have none or close to no use of stabbing motions in contrast to escrima, although shorter blade training in silat does focus a lot on stabbing. Does anyone on here practice Moro Silat? How do the weapons application of your arts differ from what I have described that is common among Indonesian Silat and Filipino Arnis/Escrima? (As a side note, I know many people have some hangups about how authentic the term 'kali' is, the general consensus being 'not at all', but many arts under the 'kali' banner are just as effective as any art labelled under the name of escrima or arnis that I have seen. Is Pekiti Tirsia any less effective since it changed its name from Pekiti Tirsia Arnis to Pekiti Tirsia kali? I think not and in that respect I have no prejudices about the name. If it's effective it's worth learning in my opinion. Although from a historical standpoint I understand your concerns about its now widespread usage.) Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 31st August 2009 at 10:45 PM.

16th June 2009, 05:43 AM	#2
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Hi - Interesting topic, this is a little aside, but I thought I'd offer my two cents about the term "Kali" as I think it has been developing some false associations. These are just my own opinions/observations and I know these discussions can be contentious, so please understand that I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. (I'm open to being corrected. ) The term Kali is not a tell-all as regards to where a style is from: i.e. Pekiti-Tirsia Kali. I've never heard anyone associated with PTK say that the style originates from the southern Philippines or is a Moro art. Personally I see the adoption of the term "Kali" for more cultural reasons: would you really want your nation's traditional martial arts referenced in the language of a colonial power? If I remember correctly Tuhon Leo Gaje first made this point during one of his pre-seminar talks. In trying to recollect a discussion somewhere else in the binary stream, I believe it was said that Dan Inosanto was the first person who used the term in print in his book on FMA and then it took off in common usage from there. The term may be a fairly modern one. I live in the US, and here, the only style that I have ever seen that I would consider to have influence from Silat is Villabrille Largusa Kali, and mainly because they use "cross-over" footwork similar to Sempok/Dembok in Silat (one foot steps in front or back of the other - from my experience a big no-no in other FMA - never cross your feet). Talking with an instructor of mine regarding that style, it appears that they do orient some of their movements towards dealing with heavier weapons which could be an indicator of Keris, etc (my inference - not my teacher's). But then again, the history page posted on the Villabrille Largusa site talks about Villabrille fighting a Moro Prince who practices Silat/Kuntao.... So if you are searching for info on Moro arts I would caution you in relying on the term "Kali" alone. I hope someone has some good info for you though - I often been curious about the same subject. I think you are on the right track though with the connection between movement and light vs heavy weapon: very different games. Another avenue of research may be Borneo....

31st August 2009, 02:21 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Just a question here; have any of you seen the staged combat sequences from Crossing Sulu Seas , Cecil Quirino's vid ? Any comments if you have ?

24th February 2010, 05:26 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I see definite similarities to the footage in Cecil's documentary . Thanks for this .