Random chosen pictures of the Oriental beauties

Rivkin · 26th April 2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

2. The niello Persian style hilt is indeed Caucasian from Georgia, while the blade is most likely a Chechen work.These straight sabres resemble those used by Khevsur tribal warriors from the high mountain regions of Georgia, however this example's quality far exceeds those usually found from those enclaves. These high quality Georgian sabres were often presentation pieces from the 19th century used as diplomatic gifts by Georgian princes.

1. I would like to express my deepest appreciation for the posting of these pictures.

2. If I may, the question to Jim - why do you think it's chechen ?

Sincerely yours,

K.Rivkin

Radu Transylvanicus · 27th April 2005, 12:23 PM

The helmet and the armguards are not part of the same armor, they were made centuries and even more miles apart, Pane Wolviexowsky !

Its like putting Colonel Wolodjowsky to fight the Kaiser boys kind of deal

...

Jens Nordlunde · 27th April 2005, 05:04 PM

Hello wolviex,

No I am not angry, I am very pleased, with the pictures and with your kind words.
What you show are fantastic pieces - thank you very much, and the photographing is exelent

- I wish I could do it like you have, but I have problems controlling the light.
I have not been able to write as I have been unable to get on the net since Saturday, and only to day the modem or the telephon central for this area has started to behave, although it is very unstable, so to get an answer to you I will send it now, and comment later when things gets more stable.
Interesting comments Radu and Jim.

Thanks - it is a pleasure to see your pictures.

Jens

wolviex · 27th April 2005, 10:04 PM

Jens: thank you.

Radu: are you going to ruin prof Zygulski work of life

I won't linger discussion about armour I have mentioned before, because of few private reasons and because the pic of it is not here. Anyway, thank you for this remark about "non-compatibility" of this few objects - maybe someday we will continue this further

The parade axe was dated by prof Zygulski as 17th/18th century so far. Well, I'm in hard position now Radu. Prof Zygulski is a great scholar and historian, thanks to him we know in Poland so much about weapons and the world heard about us as well. He is also great specialist of Persian art (not only weapons, but art overall) while I admit, some other scholars are arguing sometimes with him, but still he is the one who wrote about Turkish and Persian arts wide monographs since many years. I can't judge his work while this regions of knowledge are still terra nova for me, but I allow the thought that he may be wrong.
So - Radu, please don't stop your work. But please give some notes with acknowledgments, where did you get this informations (if only it isn't secret

and only if you can) they will be helpful as well. Dear Friends - let's discuss also this great Radu's job - any polemics, or confirms?

Thank you once more
Ragards!

Radu Transylvanicus · 27th April 2005, 10:38 PM

On the axe there is a good chance it might be as early as late 17th I am flexible on that it is the miniature that made me push it a little further, I walk a fine line when aproximate age on the axe thats exactly why I was asking Jans what he thinks about the age of the axe !
My compliments to prof. Zygulski , so far I dont see too much difference between our ideas, as far as "compatibility" if it is to be a display box labeled as "Classic Indo-Persian arms and armour" they are a perfect match but if you shoot for something like "Mughal warrior set - 18th century" then we need to sit down at a round table and talk about it...
Has anyone decrypted the inscription yet?
As far as the miniature isnt it amazing and beautiful that in Persian art even though Islamic, the painting of human figures was not forbidden but even encouraged in splendid images like this, where even though Imam Ali is a crucial character in the Quran as being the messenger and voice of God his physical image and face are not repudiated but embraced making Persia pretty much the only place where pictorial Muslim iconography exists...

Radu Transylvanicus · 28th April 2005, 12:43 AM

Wolviex, on tabar zain I went ahead and analysed some more Persian axes, it does seem Safavid (17th century) just like I tought too at the beggining too but then there is the miniature which seem to me it was executed later than that !

Rick · 28th April 2005, 01:13 AM

I can hear Ruel grinding his teeth all the way here in Massachusetts .

27th April 2005, 05:04 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hello wolviex, No I am not angry, I am very pleased, with the pictures and with your kind words. What you show are fantastic pieces - thank you very much, and the photographing is exelent - I wish I could do it like you have, but I have problems controlling the light. I have not been able to write as I have been unable to get on the net since Saturday, and only to day the modem or the telephon central for this area has started to behave, although it is very unstable, so to get an answer to you I will send it now, and comment later when things gets more stable. Interesting comments Radu and Jim. Thanks - it is a pleasure to see your pictures. Jens Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 27th April 2005 at 05:39 PM.

27th April 2005, 10:38 PM	#5
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	On the axe there is a good chance it might be as early as late 17th I am flexible on that it is the miniature that made me push it a little further, I walk a fine line when aproximate age on the axe thats exactly why I was asking Jans what he thinks about the age of the axe ! My compliments to prof. Zygulski , so far I dont see too much difference between our ideas, as far as "compatibility" if it is to be a display box labeled as "Classic Indo-Persian arms and armour" they are a perfect match but if you shoot for something like "Mughal warrior set - 18th century" then we need to sit down at a round table and talk about it... Has anyone decrypted the inscription yet? As far as the miniature isnt it amazing and beautiful that in Persian art even though Islamic, the painting of human figures was not forbidden but even encouraged in splendid images like this, where even though Imam Ali is a crucial character in the Quran as being the messenger and voice of God his physical image and face are not repudiated but embraced making Persia pretty much the only place where pictorial Muslim iconography exists... Last edited by Radu Transylvanicus; 27th April 2005 at 10:54 PM.

28th April 2005, 01:13 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Radu I can hear Ruel grinding his teeth all the way here in Massachusetts . Last edited by Rick; 28th April 2005 at 01:46 AM.

27th April 2005, 12:23 PM	#2
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	The helmet and the armguards are not part of the same armor, they were made centuries and even more miles apart, Pane Wolviexowsky ! Its like putting Colonel Wolodjowsky to fight the Kaiser boys kind of deal ...

27th April 2005, 10:04 PM	#4
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Jens: thank you. Radu: are you going to ruin prof Zygulski work of life I won't linger discussion about armour I have mentioned before, because of few private reasons and because the pic of it is not here. Anyway, thank you for this remark about "non-compatibility" of this few objects - maybe someday we will continue this further The parade axe was dated by prof Zygulski as 17th/18th century so far. Well, I'm in hard position now Radu. Prof Zygulski is a great scholar and historian, thanks to him we know in Poland so much about weapons and the world heard about us as well. He is also great specialist of Persian art (not only weapons, but art overall) while I admit, some other scholars are arguing sometimes with him, but still he is the one who wrote about Turkish and Persian arts wide monographs since many years. I can't judge his work while this regions of knowledge are still terra nova for me, but I allow the thought that he may be wrong. So - Radu, please don't stop your work. But please give some notes with acknowledgments, where did you get this informations (if only it isn't secret and only if you can) they will be helpful as well. Dear Friends - let's discuss also this great Radu's job - any polemics, or confirms? Thank you once more Ragards!

28th April 2005, 12:43 AM	#6
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Wolviex, on tabar zain I went ahead and analysed some more Persian axes, it does seem Safavid (17th century) just like I tought too at the beggining too but then there is the miniature which seem to me it was executed later than that !