A 13 C. Crusader sword from the Holy Land

[Jim McDougall]

I keep returning to this amazing sword, and wondering about excavations in regions where the crusades took place. It seems at our annual dinner in I believe 2003, there was an amazing talk given by a young lady who was an archaeologist who had participated in one of these projects. I cannot find my notes, nor recall her name or details of her findings.
Can anyone help?
I am wondering about what seems to have been the remains of a horseman and his horse both with imbedded arrowheads, and apparantly left in situ.

It seems remarkable that no other swords from actions that took place over almost two centuries have been found in such excavations. Any further perspective on this?

All best regards,
Jim

[stekemest]

Hi Jim,
I don't know if I understand your question correctly (my English is not the best), but if you ask why so few swords are found on battlefields: after the battle, victorious soldiers and peasants from all around came to the battlefield and collected everything that was worth something or could somehow be used, especially undamaged armour and weapons. That's why swords are often missing.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by stekemest

Hi Jim,
I don't know if I understand your question correctly (my English is not the best), but if you ask why so few swords are found on battlefields: after the battle, victorious soldiers and peasants from all around came to the battlefield and collected everything that was worth something or could somehow be used, especially undamaged armour and weapons. That's why swords are often missing.

Hi Stekemest,
Thank you so much for responding, and actually, your English is pretty impeccable as far as I can notice. I do understand about the collecting of battlefield pickups which has been common practice as long as there has been warfare, weapons were valuable and hard to come by, so there was actually a sort of cottage industry selling 'surplus'.

What I was wondering is about sites which were either relatively remote, or in desert regions such as the one we are discussing, where its deposit was not necessarily from battle, but perhaps one of a small group was enroute to or from campaign or skirmishing action. As I mentioned, the archaeologist speaking was discussing a find where both human remains and horse were found together. There was no sword or weapon found, so as discussed, these were likely plundered.

As far as I have understood, the only crusades period swords that have been found were either from those that became trophies, some collected from museums, and some from churches, burials etc. I am just trying to discover whether anyone is aware of any excavation, crusades related, that may have uncovered swords, weapons or armour.

Also, I am hoping that someone who was present in 2003 might recall details of the talk given by the archaeologist on finds from crusades areas, I think it might have been Tyre.

Thank you so much for answering!!! It means a lot!!

All the best,
Jim

[Oriental-Arms]

Hi Jim

The lady name was Kate Rafael and the title of her talk was: "Archeology of battle field", specifically related to the excavations in "Ateret" a small crusader fortress on the Jordan river bank. I will call her to find out if she has a copy of her presentation.

Other exacavation related to this period were made in the old city of Acre and many other fortresses, but to the best of my knowlege only few remains of arms and armor were found: armor parts, spear heads mace head, many arrowheads and the like. Not a single sword.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

Hi Jim

The lady name was Kate Rafael and the title of her talk was: "Archeology of battle field", specifically related to the excavations in "Ateret" a small crusader fortress on the Jordan river bank. I will call her to find out if she has a copy of her presentation.

Other exacavation related to this period were made in the old city of Acre and many other fortresses, but to the best of my knowlege only few remains of arms and armor were found: armor parts, spear heads mace head, many arrowheads and the like. Not a single sword.

Thank you so much Artzi!!! I really do appreciate that very much, as well as refreshing my memory....I could not find the notes!
This sword you have shared here is by far one of the most important I have seen, and I look forward to more information as can be revealed with more research. It couldn't have found a better home.

All the very best,
Jim

[broadaxe]

To add Artzi's post, Ateret is the modern name to Vadum Iacob, a Templar outpost on the road to Damascus, its history is well documented. Here is a link to the excavation page: http://vadumiacob.huji.ac.il/
I have all the official inventory of edge weapon artifacts (documented crusader period) from the Antiquity Authority, and there are only about two dozens of them, mostly fragments. Two full swords were recovered from under the sea and they are totally encrusted in marine deposit, another important sword lacking its cross guard but do have its original wooden plank scabbard; it has been on loan for the past several year to the L'institut du Monde Arab in Paris. I'm aware of several other partial items in private hands, very few.

[Spunjer]

how much does the sword weigh, artzi?
thanks for posting!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by broadaxe

To add Artzi's post, Ateret is the modern name to Vadum Iacob, a Templar outpost on the road to Damascus, its history is well documented. Here is a link to the excavation page: http://vadumiacob.huji.ac.il/
I have all the official inventory of edge weapon artifacts (documented crusader period) from the Antiquity Authority, and there are only about two dozens of them, mostly fragments. Two full swords were recovered from under the sea and they are totally encrusted in marine deposit, another important sword lacking its cross guard but do have its original wooden plank scabbard; it has been on loan for the past several year to the L'institut du Monde Arab in Paris. I'm aware of several other partial items in private hands, very few.

Thank you so much for posting the additional link and information Broadaxe. Extremely helpful ! This is such a fascinating sword, and the more I look at it , the more I want to learn about the archaeology of the crusades.
It seems topics like this are always sort of present, but one gets so busy in the maelstrom of so many daily queries and subjects, something this monumental seems to get put off.
The inspiration here is compelling!

All best regards,
Jim

P.S. Spunjer, good to see you posting here. Havent seen you for a while