My Birthday Present: Knife for ID Please

Norman McCormick · 3rd April 2009, 10:19 PM

Hi,
This 'mystery knife' has always been in the back of my mind when reading books, the net etc. I was reading 'Medieval finds from excavations in London, Knives and Scabbards' when I came across some information that may be relevant. In large houses/manors etc., there was an important servant called the 'Panter' the person in charge of the Pantry i.e. the food for the household. In times before canning/fridges the logistics of this position was such that it was an extremely responsible post if not the most important in the household. A ceremonial of the Panter was to cut the Lord/Masters bread of which the top piece was given to the Lord/Master hence the expression "the upper crust'. To carry out this service of sectioning the bread the Panter used four knives the Chaffer, the Parer, the Mensal and the Trencher. To my mind this knife looks like 'the Chaffer'. It is not an enormous leap of imagination to expect that an important implement of an important person in later years, when the intended use is no longer applicable, should be used as a 'Badge of Office' rather than a tool. There are, as you know, many examples of items used historically as weapons/tools but now only used in ceremonial. I am of the opinion that this knife lies somewhere in the 18th Cent, is European and is the 'Badge of Office' of an important servant/employee of a 'grand/aristocratic household' but not necessarily limited to the 'Keeper of the Pantry' but possibly someone with a wider responsibility e.g. Head Servant etc. This is purely speculation but as an idea I think it is reasonably valid.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. I will add a photo tomorrow of a Medieval drawing from a manuscript at the Bodleian showing these knives.

3rd April 2009, 10:19 PM	#31
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi, This 'mystery knife' has always been in the back of my mind when reading books, the net etc. I was reading 'Medieval finds from excavations in London, Knives and Scabbards' when I came across some information that may be relevant. In large houses/manors etc., there was an important servant called the 'Panter' the person in charge of the Pantry i.e. the food for the household. In times before canning/fridges the logistics of this position was such that it was an extremely responsible post if not the most important in the household. A ceremonial of the Panter was to cut the Lord/Masters bread of which the top piece was given to the Lord/Master hence the expression "the upper crust'. To carry out this service of sectioning the bread the Panter used four knives the Chaffer, the Parer, the Mensal and the Trencher. To my mind this knife looks like 'the Chaffer'. It is not an enormous leap of imagination to expect that an important implement of an important person in later years, when the intended use is no longer applicable, should be used as a 'Badge of Office' rather than a tool. There are, as you know, many examples of items used historically as weapons/tools but now only used in ceremonial. I am of the opinion that this knife lies somewhere in the 18th Cent, is European and is the 'Badge of Office' of an important servant/employee of a 'grand/aristocratic household' but not necessarily limited to the 'Keeper of the Pantry' but possibly someone with a wider responsibility e.g. Head Servant etc. This is purely speculation but as an idea I think it is reasonably valid. Regards, Norman. P.S. I will add a photo tomorrow of a Medieval drawing from a manuscript at the Bodleian showing these knives.