Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th March 2009, 11:18 PM   #1
rand
Member
 
rand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 539
Default Comparison

From a comparison of the oval shape left in the floral design from the absence of being completely filled in with gold overlay, seems these two examples of metalwork are from the same time period and area.

To me this is compelling evidence that this is a Persian shield dating to the second quarter this the 19th century during the reign of Faht Ali Shah.

rand
rand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2009, 04:56 PM   #2
rand
Member
 
rand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 539
Default Older is Better Generality

When one is trying to determine the age of Islamic arms there is a generalism of the better the craftsmanship the old the object is. But this is something that is not written in stone, there are exceptions in levels of craftsmenship both in single pieces and also during reigns.

In Persian art the Safavid period (1502-1722) is considered a time of high levels of quality craftsmanship coupled with strong support of artisens from the ruling class.

During the following Qajar Dynasty (1781-1925), the Period of Faht Ali Shah's rule, (1797-1834) also seems to have a resurgence in the level of craftsmanship. There is even the rebirth of earlier designs- patterns, possibly reaching to bring back the glory from their history.

The Persian culture has a long history that shows their appreciation of metalwork. The book "Persian Steel", The Tanavoli Collection, by James Allan shows many examples of every day use articles made from embellished steel. Just point this out because the Persian culture in particular seems to have an afinity for articles made from steel.

rand
rand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2009, 05:31 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,198
Default

Outstanding observations Rand! and a great approach in the understanding of fine Islamic pieces. What you have pointed out is extremely helpful in trying to estimate period and regional affinities by comparison of motif with provenanced material culture and art from associated regions.

Going further, it is fascinating to discover the symbolism often imbued beyond the decorative motif. It seems that often certain botanicals carry key symbolism that may represent not only religious but sometimes traditional or political themes. There is always more to art than meets the eye, as seen popularly in the book and movie, "The DaVinci Code", and while somewhat fanciful and embellished, this illustrates the concept quite well. Even in the artwork in certain temples, some of the themes are believed to carry concealed messages recognizable only to those well versed in the deep esoterica associated with the culture there.

I think one of the best references that discusses this approach in the study of the art in weaponry is "Hindu Arms and Ritual" by Robert Elgood. Though most of the references well known discussing Islamic weapons are typically great for understanding typology, it has seemed to me that they often do not go deeply enough into this concept in understanding the symbolism. While this reference is obviously on Hindu arms, the concept itself is beautifully described by Dr. Elgood.

Thank you for sharing the beautiful example, and the great observations!

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2009, 03:41 PM   #4
rand
Member
 
rand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 539
Default

Hey Jim,

The floral motifs used in an arms decoration have always held an interest to me. It may be that just as States in the USA all have state flowers the same analogy may hold to different regions in the world in times past. For example the Tulip to Turkey and the Rose to the Caucasus, the intrinsic power of that iconic image is likely under valued.

Elgood is certainly in my minds eye the premiere current author on Islamic arms because of his thorough research and use of multi references to explain his reason for time period and origen. He has made a few mistakes in earlier volumes, the door boss's that were throrized as bucklers in "Islamic Arms and Armor" is one I am sure he would like to be able to rewrite. But it just show that a book is in reality an authors theory and it needs to hold up to criticism over time to really become valid. All to often we see something published with little thought or thorough research.


rand

Last edited by rand; 30th March 2009 at 03:55 PM.
rand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2009, 04:30 PM   #5
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
Default

Hi Rand,
Beautiful shield, but then you know that, or you would not have bought it.
Interesting what you write about the floral decoration, as I have been working on the subject for years, and am of the same opinion that you are.
It is, however a hard and stony way to walk, although there, now and again, are pieces of information to be found, often when looking at textiles.
Jens
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2009, 05:18 PM   #6
rand
Member
 
rand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 539
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde
Hi Rand,
Beautiful shield, but then you know that, or you would not have bought it.
Interesting what you write about the floral decoration, as I have been working on the subject for years, and am of the same opinion that you are.
It is, however a hard and stony way to walk, although there, now and again, are pieces of information to be found, often when looking at textiles.
Jens

Hi Jens,

Would be very interested in your opinion of what any of the flowers in this shield are and also if you think of a region that may suggest.


rand
rand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2009, 11:11 PM   #7
rand
Member
 
rand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 539
Default Scale-like decoration around calligraphy

This photo show a section of the calligraphy on the perimeter of this shield. What interests me is the unusual fish scale like incised decoration around the writing inside the cartouche.

rand
Attached Images
  

Last edited by rand; 31st March 2009 at 11:38 PM.
rand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.