A 13 C. Crusader sword from the Holy Land

Jim McDougall · 26th March 2009, 08:17 PM

Artzi, thank you so very much for posting this most amazing sword, a fantastic piece of history that has reposed for so many years beneath the sand. It is wonderful to have the opportunity to view and discuss this here, and I look forward to views from those here with key knowledge on swords of these important historic times.

I'm with Gav, I'd love to be out there with a metal detector too

but in the meantime, thanks to you Artzi, we have one here to see!

All very best regards,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 26th March 2009, 09:22 PM

Hi,
The Type XII for me epitomises the archetypal 'knights sword'. As far as I can remember this type was one of the most produced in the Medieval period. It does seem unusual that a sword produced in numbers over a long period of time should be so scantily represented in one of the most fought over theatres in the Middle Ages. With an abundance of dry and arid climatic regions you would think that well preserved examples would be more prolific. Perhaps this scarcity is due more to the care of the 'victors' in stripping the battlefield of reusable 'materiel' than anything else, after all weapons grade metal would not be 'a penny a pound'. From memory a distinct feature of Type XII blades is a lenticular cross section it is difficult to see this in the photographs and I just wonder if you could confirm that the blade has this particular property. A really nice addition to any collection.
My Regards,
Norman.

cornelistromp · 26th March 2009, 10:05 PM

really Beautiful sword , and great work with the x-ray.
thank you for placing this interesting thread.
if the rust is "loose" and the sword is in a sound condition you can consider cleaning by electrolyze. (mind. it will not harm the steel but the pitting will be more obvious and the cross guard probably will come loose from the shoulder).

with a medium-strong tapering of the blade, as seen on the pictures and if the point is reinforced,of a flat diamond shaped section??, the classification can also be Oakeshott type XVI.
The date of mid 14THC matches the Pommel variation of type i.

again an amazing sword!

best regards

stekemest · 26th March 2009, 11:36 PM

Do NOT use electrolyze. It could destroy the swords's patina.
You could use a dremel/flex and a steel brush instead. That would neither hurt the metal nor the patina, but remove the rust.

Peter

migueldiaz · 27th March 2009, 05:14 AM

Amazing! Thanks for sharing the info

Oriental-Arms · 27th March 2009, 08:25 PM

The cross section of the tip is definitely not flat diamond, more probably lenticular shape, so type XII for this sword sounds possible. Furthermore, in the 14C. the Holy Land was already taken completely by the Arabs so it would be quite surprising (Although not totaly impossible) to find here a 14 C. European swordis

26th March 2009, 08:17 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Artzi, thank you so very much for posting this most amazing sword, a fantastic piece of history that has reposed for so many years beneath the sand. It is wonderful to have the opportunity to view and discuss this here, and I look forward to views from those here with key knowledge on swords of these important historic times. I'm with Gav, I'd love to be out there with a metal detector too but in the meantime, thanks to you Artzi, we have one here to see! All very best regards, Jim

26th March 2009, 09:22 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi, The Type XII for me epitomises the archetypal 'knights sword'. As far as I can remember this type was one of the most produced in the Medieval period. It does seem unusual that a sword produced in numbers over a long period of time should be so scantily represented in one of the most fought over theatres in the Middle Ages. With an abundance of dry and arid climatic regions you would think that well preserved examples would be more prolific. Perhaps this scarcity is due more to the care of the 'victors' in stripping the battlefield of reusable 'materiel' than anything else, after all weapons grade metal would not be 'a penny a pound'. From memory a distinct feature of Type XII blades is a lenticular cross section it is difficult to see this in the photographs and I just wonder if you could confirm that the blade has this particular property. A really nice addition to any collection. My Regards, Norman.

26th March 2009, 10:05 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	really Beautiful sword , and great work with the x-ray. thank you for placing this interesting thread. if the rust is "loose" and the sword is in a sound condition you can consider cleaning by electrolyze. (mind. it will not harm the steel but the pitting will be more obvious and the cross guard probably will come loose from the shoulder). with a medium-strong tapering of the blade, as seen on the pictures and if the point is reinforced,of a flat diamond shaped section??, the classification can also be Oakeshott type XVI. The date of mid 14THC matches the Pommel variation of type i. again an amazing sword! best regards

26th March 2009, 11:36 PM	#4
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	Do NOT use electrolyze. It could destroy the swords's patina. You could use a dremel/flex and a steel brush instead. That would neither hurt the metal nor the patina, but remove the rust. Peter

27th March 2009, 05:14 AM	#5
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Amazing! Thanks for sharing the info

27th March 2009, 08:25 PM	#6
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	The cross section of the tip is definitely not flat diamond, more probably lenticular shape, so type XII for this sword sounds possible. Furthermore, in the 14C. the Holy Land was already taken completely by the Arabs so it would be quite surprising (Although not totaly impossible) to find here a 14 C. European swordis