Help to ID this Congolese weapon

Tim Simmons · 26th March 2009, 05:56 PM

I Like the expanding zigzag pattern, makes it appear to have movement rather than stiff and static. Very cool. Zigzag papers, lucky I do not need them anymore

LPCA · 26th March 2009, 07:06 PM

Jim,

You pointed on the right problem of Africa. As you know, the blades are a pretext to try to understand people. I just opened the door of this vast subject which is not easy to approach.

First -We think art and free interpretation, they think usefull with respect of their tribe'straditions.
I don't think that the patterns on an african blade are a free artistic interpretation for pleasure. They are especially patterns of one or more tribes and we may find them somewhere (clothes, leathers or shields,...).

Second -The notion of OLD seems to be different for us and them. For us, a XIX° piece is not really old: our grand-father's father...
For them, it's of course the same but climate and insects as termites are merciless. So, a mask which is one century ago (1900) is exceptional. Usually, a piece of the 40's or 50's is considered as having age.

Third - Authenticity and age does not match for all the cases.
A gift to Mr. Stanley at the very end of XIX° is not considered as authentic because it had been done off the trends of the tribe. It's old but not authentic.
What's authentic is a piece done by the tribe to be usefull to the tribe.

It is not easy to change his mind on things. It is mandatory to understand this magic world.

See You, my friend.
Louis-Pierre

Luc LEFEBVRE · 26th March 2009, 11:41 PM

Hi Louis-Pierre,
Your model is not typical of the Luba style, look at the handle, specific blade forged with facets on the pics joined.
Luc

LPCA · 27th March 2009, 07:51 AM

Bonjour, Luc.

You are right. the forge is not the same, not tribal patterns.
The forge with facets is specific and signs the membership in a tribe.

What's a pity is that i saw the sane knife with reference to its tribe and i loose this documentation. What's sure is that this blade is congolese, ... but from which tribe...

I hope that one forumite wil give the key of that enigm.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help and cheers to your excellent website.

Amicalement.
Louis-Pierre

26th March 2009, 11:41 PM	#3
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	Hi Louis-Pierre, Your model is not typical of the Luba style, look at the handle, specific blade forged with facets on the pics joined. Luc Attached Images

26th March 2009, 05:56 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I Like the expanding zigzag pattern, makes it appear to have movement rather than stiff and static. Very cool. Zigzag papers, lucky I do not need them anymore

26th March 2009, 07:06 PM	#2
LPCA Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toulouse - FRANCE Posts: 83	Jim, You pointed on the right problem of Africa. As you know, the blades are a pretext to try to understand people. I just opened the door of this vast subject which is not easy to approach. First -We think art and free interpretation, they think usefull with respect of their tribe'straditions. I don't think that the patterns on an african blade are a free artistic interpretation for pleasure. They are especially patterns of one or more tribes and we may find them somewhere (clothes, leathers or shields,...). Second -The notion of OLD seems to be different for us and them. For us, a XIX° piece is not really old: our grand-father's father... For them, it's of course the same but climate and insects as termites are merciless. So, a mask which is one century ago (1900) is exceptional. Usually, a piece of the 40's or 50's is considered as having age. Third - Authenticity and age does not match for all the cases. A gift to Mr. Stanley at the very end of XIX° is not considered as authentic because it had been done off the trends of the tribe. It's old but not authentic. What's authentic is a piece done by the tribe to be usefull to the tribe. It is not easy to change his mind on things. It is mandatory to understand this magic world. See You, my friend. Louis-Pierre

27th March 2009, 07:51 AM	#4
LPCA Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toulouse - FRANCE Posts: 83	Bonjour, Luc. You are right. the forge is not the same, not tribal patterns. The forge with facets is specific and signs the membership in a tribe. What's a pity is that i saw the sane knife with reference to its tribe and i loose this documentation. What's sure is that this blade is congolese, ... but from which tribe... I hope that one forumite wil give the key of that enigm. Anyway, thanks a lot for your help and cheers to your excellent website. Amicalement. Louis-Pierre