keris in amsterdam museum

nechesh · 24th April 2005, 06:16 PM

Wow!!! Thanks so much. I had no idea that this important keris had been found again. Of course, the idea that it could have ever been pushed into the back of some museum storeroom draw is just plain nuts! Perhaps more research can now be done on this piece. I have heard that some experts have suggested some doubt to it's reported aged.

tuancd · 24th April 2005, 06:38 PM

According David van Duuren
"it's a present from a javanese prince to the dutch physician Charles Knaud in the end of the 19th century. It is dated, engraved in the iron, 1264 (i.e. 1324 Christian Era) but of course it can have engraved later on."
For sure, the shrine of Candi Suku is from the 15th, so we have at least this thread to go with...

nechesh · 25th April 2005, 11:36 AM

Does anyone know know the other metals involved here? Is it a low quality gold on one side and silver on the other? Is there any more info on the hows and whys of this gift to Dr. Knaud. I have only read very vague commentary on this blade. Though it is obviously an important keris i have some doubt as to the engraved date as a date of origin.

tom hyle · 25th April 2005, 02:50 PM

Perhaps the overlay is newer than the blade?

Rick · 25th April 2005, 04:58 PM

[QUOTE=nechesh]Does anyone know know the other metals involved here? Is it a low quality gold on one side and silver on the other? [QUOTE]

Could be a lighting situation , note the base metal has the same hue as the overlay .

Henk · 25th April 2005, 06:22 PM

I cann't tell anything about the metalls used on this keris.
But I read an article about the rediscovery of this keris.

There is a dentist in the middle of the Netherlands who had the keris put away in the safe in the bank. This dentist is a member of the Knaud family.
Once he had a friend in his chair who happened to be a keriscollector. They talked about keris and collecting and the subject moved to the Knaud keris. The friend thought it was a strange coincedence that his friend and dentist had the name Knaud. The dentist told him that the Knaud keris wasn't lost but that he had put it in the safe and that he owned the keris. With a few friends this collector made an appointment with the dentist, not for their teeth, but to see the Knaud keris. The dentist demanded that the knowledge that he was the owner of the keris and that the keris was in his possession should kept a secret. When this select group saw the keris they could convince the dentist that he should contact David van Duuren, the conservator of the KIT. The dentist decided to contact him and the pictures are the proof of it.

Battara · 25th April 2005, 07:31 PM

I would guess that the overlay is silver. Gold would have a better sheen and in the second picture there are places that are brownish-black, indicative of tarnish. So very glad this was found. Thanks for sharing.

BTW - Tuancd, like your avatar.

nechesh · 25th April 2005, 10:40 PM

Rick, i did notice the overall color shift on the "gold' side and you are probably right.
Tom, i think your suggestion on the overlay is certainly a possibility. I do find that dating this keris by the date on the keris itself is problematic at best.
Henk, thanks for the added info. Makes more sense than the keris being lost in the museum's back room. I would still like to hear more about this keris from the time of collection. It is certainly an extraordinary blade regardless of it's date of origin. It would be interesting to know what service the good doctor performed for the prince to receive it.

24th April 2005, 06:16 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wow!!! Thanks so much. I had no idea that this important keris had been found again. Of course, the idea that it could have ever been pushed into the back of some museum storeroom draw is just plain nuts! Perhaps more research can now be done on this piece. I have heard that some experts have suggested some doubt to it's reported aged.

24th April 2005, 06:38 PM	#2
tuancd Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Paris - Bruxelles Posts: 32	According David van Duuren "it's a present from a javanese prince to the dutch physician Charles Knaud in the end of the 19th century. It is dated, engraved in the iron, 1264 (i.e. 1324 Christian Era) but of course it can have engraved later on." For sure, the shrine of Candi Suku is from the 15th, so we have at least this thread to go with...

25th April 2005, 11:36 AM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Does anyone know know the other metals involved here? Is it a low quality gold on one side and silver on the other? Is there any more info on the hows and whys of this gift to Dr. Knaud. I have only read very vague commentary on this blade. Though it is obviously an important keris i have some doubt as to the engraved date as a date of origin.

25th April 2005, 02:50 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Perhaps the overlay is newer than the blade?

25th April 2005, 04:58 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	[QUOTE=nechesh]Does anyone know know the other metals involved here? Is it a low quality gold on one side and silver on the other? [QUOTE] Could be a lighting situation , note the base metal has the same hue as the overlay .

25th April 2005, 06:22 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I cann't tell anything about the metalls used on this keris. But I read an article about the rediscovery of this keris. There is a dentist in the middle of the Netherlands who had the keris put away in the safe in the bank. This dentist is a member of the Knaud family. Once he had a friend in his chair who happened to be a keriscollector. They talked about keris and collecting and the subject moved to the Knaud keris. The friend thought it was a strange coincedence that his friend and dentist had the name Knaud. The dentist told him that the Knaud keris wasn't lost but that he had put it in the safe and that he owned the keris. With a few friends this collector made an appointment with the dentist, not for their teeth, but to see the Knaud keris. The dentist demanded that the knowledge that he was the owner of the keris and that the keris was in his possession should kept a secret. When this select group saw the keris they could convince the dentist that he should contact David van Duuren, the conservator of the KIT. The dentist decided to contact him and the pictures are the proof of it.

25th April 2005, 07:31 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I would guess that the overlay is silver. Gold would have a better sheen and in the second picture there are places that are brownish-black, indicative of tarnish. So very glad this was found. Thanks for sharing. BTW - Tuancd, like your avatar.

25th April 2005, 10:40 PM	#8
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Rick, i did notice the overall color shift on the "gold' side and you are probably right. Tom, i think your suggestion on the overlay is certainly a possibility. I do find that dating this keris by the date on the keris itself is problematic at best. Henk, thanks for the added info. Makes more sense than the keris being lost in the museum's back room. I would still like to hear more about this keris from the time of collection. It is certainly an extraordinary blade regardless of it's date of origin. It would be interesting to know what service the good doctor performed for the prince to receive it.