unknown naski inscripted malchus blade?

cornelistromp · 22nd March 2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. McCormack

Somebody correct me here, because to me this plainly looks like a mandau or other parang blade, 19th century. Am I crazy?

Dear sir,

I will place some better pictures and then you all can shoot at it :-)

Re: Mandau
If you refering to the swords from Borneo Mandau(langgi tinggan,pasir) , baieng, duku, malab, malat and Parang Ilang.
the blades look similar but they all have one main (different) characteristic: one side is ball shaped and the other side hollow shaped. also they don't have ricasso's of this type.

maybe I follow the total wrong track so Im looking forward to your replies/evidence posted, on the the pictures.

best regards from Holland

Norman McCormick · 23rd March 2009, 06:42 PM

Hi Cornelis,
Is there any evidence of how the tang was affixed to a hilt e.g. peened, 'glued' etc.
My Regards,
Norman.

cornelistromp · 23rd March 2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Cornelis,
Is there any evidence of how the tang was affixed to a hilt e.g. peened, 'glued' etc.
My Regards,
Norman.

HI Norman,

no unfortunately it is not possible to tell.
but the tang goes from 7mm to 4mm thickness.

best regards

Norman McCormick · 24th March 2009, 09:26 PM

Hi Cornelis,
There are some odd things that I don't quite understand about this blade, although having said that I am far from qualified regarding blade technology. The blade to my mind appears to have been cast rather than forged and I'm sure I can see some regular tool marks that seem more modern. I hope that we can find some answers and to that end may I suggest you put the photo of the Arabic script on the Ethnographic Forum asking for a translation, this may go some way to resolving the mystery.
My Regards,
Norman.

G. McCormack · 25th March 2009, 05:26 AM

I think the cast appearance you are seeing is a result of firescale. Makes me think this blade was in a fire. ---or was just never finished much after heat treat

cornelistromp · 25th March 2009, 08:05 AM

thanks for your replies,

I don't think the blade has been cast , you can see hammertraces at the tang. my opinion is also that this balde has been in a fire, but should then the small gold inlays ,at the beginning and top of the higher fuller, not have been melted away?

I hope the translation can help out.

Best regards

Jim McDougall · 25th March 2009, 08:17 PM

It seems to me there is yet another possibility that may be worth at least considering for discussion. The profile of this blade tip, and the parallel fullers seem to suggest the general appearance of the 'scramasax' with its downward slope tip. This one seems to have lost a bit of the tip. The copper inlaid holes seem consistant with this practice in swords of medieval period, though the outlined dot motif I cannot say is common or well known.

The scramasax type weapons (in sword size) though I dont believe had the heavy forte, but again inviting other observations.Obviously not a Muslim sword form, but the inscription might suggest a captured weapon, and perhaps this item might be exactly in the situation suggested initially by Cornelistromp.

All the best,
Jim

23rd March 2009, 06:42 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi Cornelis, Is there any evidence of how the tang was affixed to a hilt e.g. peened, 'glued' etc. My Regards, Norman.

24th March 2009, 09:26 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi Cornelis, There are some odd things that I don't quite understand about this blade, although having said that I am far from qualified regarding blade technology. The blade to my mind appears to have been cast rather than forged and I'm sure I can see some regular tool marks that seem more modern. I hope that we can find some answers and to that end may I suggest you put the photo of the Arabic script on the Ethnographic Forum asking for a translation, this may go some way to resolving the mystery. My Regards, Norman.

25th March 2009, 05:26 AM	#5
G. McCormack Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 131	I think the cast appearance you are seeing is a result of firescale. Makes me think this blade was in a fire. ---or was just never finished much after heat treat

25th March 2009, 08:05 AM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	thanks for your replies, I don't think the blade has been cast , you can see hammertraces at the tang. my opinion is also that this balde has been in a fire, but should then the small gold inlays ,at the beginning and top of the higher fuller, not have been melted away? I hope the translation can help out. Best regards

25th March 2009, 08:17 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,283	It seems to me there is yet another possibility that may be worth at least considering for discussion. The profile of this blade tip, and the parallel fullers seem to suggest the general appearance of the 'scramasax' with its downward slope tip. This one seems to have lost a bit of the tip. The copper inlaid holes seem consistant with this practice in swords of medieval period, though the outlined dot motif I cannot say is common or well known. The scramasax type weapons (in sword size) though I dont believe had the heavy forte, but again inviting other observations.Obviously not a Muslim sword form, but the inscription might suggest a captured weapon, and perhaps this item might be exactly in the situation suggested initially by Cornelistromp. All the best, Jim