Filipino swords and axes in the 13th Century?

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 01:21 AM

Can't remember where I found this article. But this would be a neat summary of what prehispanic Philippines was like.

Here's the article in full (and note the mention of the Sung dynasty, which might give further leads):

-----

The Philippines Before Magellan
By: Charity Beyer-Bagatsing

From the notes of Dr. H. Otley Beyer

Four hundred years ago, Ferdinand Magellan anchored his little exploring fleet in Philippine waters in the evening on March 16, 1521. Herein, to most people Philippine history begins with Antonio Pigafetta’s splendid diary of Magellan’s voyage. Spanish colonization both in the Americas and the Philippines has been characterized by a fanatic zeal for the Christian faith and corresponding hatred for all other forms of belief led them to regard the native writings and art as works of the devil—to be destroyed wherever found.

In Mexico and Peru many old records were preserved in more or less modified form in the writings of the early Christians and Spanish half-castes, but in the Philippines the destruction was ruthlessly thorough and only a few fragments have survived. One Spanish priest in southern Luzon boasted of having destroyed more than three hundred scrolls written in the native character. How valuable those old records might have been to us. The results is that we have no trustworthy native material, and our past can only be pieced together from data painstakingly gathered from neighboring countries, to be patiently pieced together with local tradition and archeological discoveries. It is of no wonder that most historians have been content to pass over the Pre-European period and begin the body of their work with Magellan’s voyage.

When Magellan arrived in the Philippines, he did not came across a land occupied by ignorant wild savages but discovered one of the epicenters of the international trade industry which extended from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

William Henry Scott in his book the Pre-Hispanic Source Materials intenerates “When the pre-Hispanic epoch was brought to a close by Ferdinand Magellan’s arrival in 1521, Luzon traders were sailing to Timor, Malacca and Canton, had a colony in Minjam on the Malay Peninsula, a Portuguese appointed magistrate in Malacca and marriage relations with the Sultan of Brunei, and the Manila bourgeoisie were learning to speak Malay.”

The pre-Hispanic Filipinos were very literate and used syllabaries of Indian origin. Father Chirino (1604, 39):“These islanders are so given to reading and writing that there is hardly a man and much less a woman, who does not read and write in the letters of the island of Manila.

The first actual mention of the Philippines is recorded in the official Sung history when certain traders from Ma-i (the present island of Mindoro) brought valuable merchandise to Canton for sale in 982 A.D. As early as the tenth century Philippine vessels were crossing the oceans to China and Champa for exportable trade goods.

From the 12th to the 15th centuries, accounts of Bruni, Sulu, Ma-i and others of the Philippine islands became more numerous. The following abbreviated account comes from Chau Ju Kua written about 1225. The salient points of this report are as follows:

“The island of Ma-i lies north of Borneo. When trading ships enter the anchorage, they stop in front of the officials place, for that is the place for bartering of the country. There is a great market there. After a ship has been boarded, the natives mix freely with the ship’s folk. The chiefs are in the habit of using white umbrellas, for which reason the traders offer them as gifts.

The custom for trade is for the local traders to assemble in crowds and carry the goods away with them in baskets; and, even if one cannot at first know them, and can but slowly distinguish the men who remove the goods, yet there will be no loss. The local traders then carry these goods on to other islands for barter, and as a rule takes them about eight – nine months before they return, when they repay the merchants on shipboard with what they have obtained for the goods.

The products of the country consist of yellow wax (beeswax), cotton, pearls, tortoise-shell, medicinal betel nuts, fiber cloth (sinamay). The goods used in trading are porcelain, trade-gold, iron cauldrons, lead, colored glass beads, iron needles, pieces of iron, colored cotton stuffs, red taffetas, ivory, silks of different colors, copper pots, sycee shoes, and the like.”

The San-hsu (or three islands) belong to Ma-i; their names are Kia-ma-yen (Kalamian or Culion), Pa-lau-yu (probably Penon de Coron) and Pa-ki-nung (probably Busuanga), and each has its own tribes scattered over the islands. When the ships arrive there, the natives come out to trade with them.

In the remotest valleys, there lives another tribe called Hai-tan (Aetas). They are smaller in nature, they have curly hair and they nest in tree tops. Whenever foreign traders arrive at the settlements, they announce their presence to the natives by beating drums. Upon this, the natives race for the ships in small boats, carrying cotton, yellow wax, native cloth and coconut husk mats which they offer for barter. If the prices cannot be agreed upon, one or two of the natives remain on board the ship as hostages while the chief of the traders must go on shore to meet the native ruler in order to come to an understanding. These being reached the natives are offered presents of silk umbrellas, porcelain, and rattan baskets. After the traders return to their ships, the hostages are released. A ship will not remain at anchor longer than three days or four days which it proceeds to another place.”

Several late Sung and Yuan period Chinese documents make frequent reference to the Philippine trade centers. Ports in Sulu are described to having a well developed organized network for exportable forest and maritime products (sandalwood, laka-wood, ebony, animal hides and pearls). The Sulu pearls are known to be whiter and rounder than those from other places and command a high price.

In addition to the above, we find the following accounts of trade in Sulu from the brush of a Chinese author in 1349: “When a ship arrives there, the natives take all the goods and carry them for sale in the interior, while they also sell to the neighboring countries and when they come back, the native articles are delivered to the merchants as payment. The natives are always afraid that our ships will not return, and whenever a ship leaves they detain some men as hostages to make sure the ship will call again. “

Medieval Filipinos merchants and mercenaries were deemed as honest business entrepreneurs throughout Southeast Asia as stated by Wang-Ta-yuan in his Tao I Chih Lueh written in 1349 after 20 years of travels in the pursuit of overseas profits “The shipboard merchants advance them credit for never have they defaulted since the beginning.”

During the early 14th century, the ties between Chinese- Philippines trade relations grew stronger. In 1406, in the reign of Chinese Emperor Ch’eng-tsu a Filipino chieftain visited the Imperial Court at Nanking and was presented gifts of horses, silver and other products. This was followed by other trips. Another visit occurred during Emperor Hung-wa’s reign in 1572 when the Filipino tribute embassy was welcomed at his court.

Early Spanish documents provide a detailed documentation of the Southeast Asian trade industry. Asides from the Chinese junks; large trade ships from Borneo, Thailand and Japan were regularly arriving at some of the larger Philippine coastal ports: Manila, Mindoro, Pangasinan, Cebu, Jolo (Sulu), and Cotabato. Filipino traders had significant knowledge and presence at other Southeast Asian trade ports such as Melaka, Borneo, Ternate (Moluccas) and Myanmar.

Chiefs in pre-Hispanic Philippines also financed and equipped outgoing trade voyages for foreign trade. Furthermore they made attempts to attract foreign trade partners by investing in port facilities, good harborage, military protection for merchants, housing, provision and entertainment for foreign traders, and developed efficient systems for mobilizing the trade goods. Sixteenth century descriptions of Manila records a well fortified heavily populated trade port with special quarters for Chinese and Japanese merchants and a well organized port area managed by a grand chieftain and a number of lesser chiefs.

The blissful period of pre-Hispanic Philippines clearly indicates a sophisticated cultured people who focused on peaceful commercial trade, maritime exploration while maintaining friendly and viable economic relations with their neighbors. A far cry from the depictions made by European historians who portrayed a people whose existence began as a colony of Spain and for many years was deemed as the only source for the study of Philippine history.

The purpose of this article is to remind this present generation about the grand history of their ninunos (forefathers) and rekindle our diwa (spirit of greatness) that has always been the heritage of the Filipino people.

Charity Beyer-Bagatsing is the great-granddaughter of Dr. H. Otley Beyer. She is the guardian of the Beyer Library Collection and Publisher of Northwest Woman Magazine. To contact the author visit her website or e-mail: editor@northwestwoman.com

Optional Photographs: From the H.O. Beyer Collection

Bamboo with Baybayin writings on the outside and a scroll inside.

Luxury Trade Goods from the Pre-Hispanic Period.

Colored Glass Beads
Green Ming Jarlet
Ming Hole Bottom Dish

Optional Sidebar: Author’s Research Sources

Barangay: 16th Century Philippine Culture & Society
William Henry Scott

Pre-Hispanic Source Materials for the Study of Philippine History (Revised Edition)
William Henry Scott

Raiding, Trading and Feasting: The Political Economy of Philippine Chiefdoms
Laura lee Junker

1421 The Year China Discovered America
Gavin Menzies

Magellan’s Voyage Around the World & the Discovery of the Philippines
Antonio Pigafetta’s Milan Edition

The Philippines Before Magellan
Dr. H. O. Beyer

The Philippine Saga
Dr. H.O.Beyer & Jaime DeVeyra

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 02:31 AM

Here's some of those Boxer Codex images of prehispanic Filipinos, from WH Scott's Barangay, which limited preview version can be found here.

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 03:05 AM

Here's one more pic from Scott's Barangay.

The text describing the image says:

"Tree houses were occupied only in time of war, built either in actual trees 15 or more meters above the ground, or on tall posts. If they were intended only for male warriors, they were reached simply by a vine which could be pulled up; but if a whole family occupied them, they were full-scale dwellings with a platform midway up reached by a removable ladder, with a second ladder up to the house itself. (See fig. 5.) They all disappeared after the Spanish pacification ...."

From the image we can obviously discern the form of the prehispanic Filipinos' spearheads, sword hilt and pommel, as well as shield types.

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 03:11 AM

By the way, that low stance of the warrior on the right (the one with the round shield) is curious.

Moro warriors are also known to use that stance often. Please see the clips below from Cecil Quirino's documentary, Crossing the Sulu Seas.

David · 21st March 2009, 04:14 AM

Great info everyone. Nice digging Miguel.

Too bad we can't see the blades on those swords with the "Y" shaped hilts. Of course these illustrations are about 300 years past the time Steven is look for and i guess quite a bite can change in that amount of time, but it is at least something to go on.

Jim McDougall · 21st March 2009, 05:31 AM

Fantastic work Miguel!!!! Now that is research... with excellent overview, resources and great suggestions. I think this will present some great perspective for Steven's project, and I would think he would be able to use this overview for a benchmark to direct toward whatever his project entails.

I think the hardest questions to respond to are those which present intriguing topics, but are actually broader than they seem. To answer concisely, there are often many factors and variables that confound accuracy, as can be seen by the volume of detail required. Although the question on specific weapons in a specific period and region seems simple enough, the study of ethnographic weapons, or any of its aspects, is never that defined, as well pointed out by the excellent responses here. Nicely handled !

Thanks for the great information and interesting info guys!!
My background on Phillipines history is pretty limited, so I appreciate the information here to follow up on as well.

All best regards,
Jim

Nonoy Tan · 21st March 2009, 06:16 AM

Hi Steve,

I believe that we may be able to get an idea of the form and design of weapons by looking at those used by peoples in the Philippines that were least influenced by "civilization." Their weapons may have not changed much over many centuries, except for the gradual increase in the use of metal (obtained from the Chinese traders, etc.). Spears with metal points became more in use as trade increased, but the design remained. These were to replace (but not fully) those made from wood, bamboo or stone. The same is the case with bamboo/wooden arrows, which later had their metal counterparts. Spears and arrows are found everywhere in the Philippine islands - even in places where there was no apparent outside influence (Chinese, Japanese, Arab, etc). Stone adzes/axes may have also taken the same transformation. I can post some pics of arrows if you are interested in weaponry apart from swords and axes. I am reminded too of the Tasaday people which you might want to look into as well.

Meanwhile, some islands which had trade contact with borneo and sumatra and/or inhabited by explorers/immigrants from the same brought with them their weapons. Thus, researching the weaponry in these places during the 13th century will provide some clues. However, whether or not one would regard these weapons as "Filipino" is debatable and there are valid points on both sides of the argument. As mentioned earlier, there was no such place called "Philippines" in the 13th century. It would help to consider the Philippines as a part of the larger austronesian group and thus IMHO good to look at the austronesian weaponry for clues.

I hope i can provide more specific information. Unfortunately, I do not have access to my source materials at this time as I am traveling until May 2009. I can look into the matter if you are willing to wait.

Nonoy Tan · 21st March 2009, 06:39 AM

Hi Miguel,

I will be back home (Manila) in May 2009. Shall we meet up again?

Nonoy

migueldiaz · 21st March 2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Great info everyone. Nice digging Miguel.

Too bad we can't see the blades on those swords with the "Y" shaped hilts. Of course these illustrations are about 300 years past the time Steven is look for and i guess quite a bite can change in that amount of time, but it is at least something to go on.

Hi David,

Yes, the time period specified by Steven is indeed problematic. In fact, the easy answer is "there's little or no data, so next question, please!".

But we can always extrapolate (use 16th-century-and-later data, and project them backward into 13th cent.), or interpolate (use pre-13th-cent. and post-13th-cent. data and "connect the dots").

Below is a chart I just made, to illustrate the extrapolation and interpolation thingy ...

21st March 2009, 02:31 AM	#2
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Here's some of those Boxer Codex images of prehispanic Filipinos, from WH Scott's Barangay, which limited preview version can be found here. Attached Images

21st March 2009, 03:05 AM	#3
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Here's one more pic from Scott's Barangay. The text describing the image says: "Tree houses were occupied only in time of war, built either in actual trees 15 or more meters above the ground, or on tall posts. If they were intended only for male warriors, they were reached simply by a vine which could be pulled up; but if a whole family occupied them, they were full-scale dwellings with a platform midway up reached by a removable ladder, with a second ladder up to the house itself. (See fig. 5.) They all disappeared after the Spanish pacification ...." From the image we can obviously discern the form of the prehispanic Filipinos' spearheads, sword hilt and pommel, as well as shield types. Attached Images

21st March 2009, 03:11 AM	#4
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	By the way, that low stance of the warrior on the right (the one with the round shield) is curious. Moro warriors are also known to use that stance often. Please see the clips below from Cecil Quirino's documentary, Crossing the Sulu Seas. Attached Images

21st March 2009, 01:21 AM	#1
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Can't remember where I found this article. But this would be a neat summary of what prehispanic Philippines was like. Here's the article in full (and note the mention of the Sung dynasty, which might give further leads): ----- The Philippines Before Magellan By: Charity Beyer-Bagatsing From the notes of Dr. H. Otley Beyer Four hundred years ago, Ferdinand Magellan anchored his little exploring fleet in Philippine waters in the evening on March 16, 1521. Herein, to most people Philippine history begins with Antonio Pigafetta’s splendid diary of Magellan’s voyage. Spanish colonization both in the Americas and the Philippines has been characterized by a fanatic zeal for the Christian faith and corresponding hatred for all other forms of belief led them to regard the native writings and art as works of the devil—to be destroyed wherever found. In Mexico and Peru many old records were preserved in more or less modified form in the writings of the early Christians and Spanish half-castes, but in the Philippines the destruction was ruthlessly thorough and only a few fragments have survived. One Spanish priest in southern Luzon boasted of having destroyed more than three hundred scrolls written in the native character. How valuable those old records might have been to us. The results is that we have no trustworthy native material, and our past can only be pieced together from data painstakingly gathered from neighboring countries, to be patiently pieced together with local tradition and archeological discoveries. It is of no wonder that most historians have been content to pass over the Pre-European period and begin the body of their work with Magellan’s voyage. When Magellan arrived in the Philippines, he did not came across a land occupied by ignorant wild savages but discovered one of the epicenters of the international trade industry which extended from the Atlantic to the Pacific. William Henry Scott in his book the Pre-Hispanic Source Materials intenerates “When the pre-Hispanic epoch was brought to a close by Ferdinand Magellan’s arrival in 1521, Luzon traders were sailing to Timor, Malacca and Canton, had a colony in Minjam on the Malay Peninsula, a Portuguese appointed magistrate in Malacca and marriage relations with the Sultan of Brunei, and the Manila bourgeoisie were learning to speak Malay.” The pre-Hispanic Filipinos were very literate and used syllabaries of Indian origin. Father Chirino (1604, 39):“These islanders are so given to reading and writing that there is hardly a man and much less a woman, who does not read and write in the letters of the island of Manila. The first actual mention of the Philippines is recorded in the official Sung history when certain traders from Ma-i (the present island of Mindoro) brought valuable merchandise to Canton for sale in 982 A.D. As early as the tenth century Philippine vessels were crossing the oceans to China and Champa for exportable trade goods. From the 12th to the 15th centuries, accounts of Bruni, Sulu, Ma-i and others of the Philippine islands became more numerous. The following abbreviated account comes from Chau Ju Kua written about 1225. The salient points of this report are as follows: “The island of Ma-i lies north of Borneo. When trading ships enter the anchorage, they stop in front of the officials place, for that is the place for bartering of the country. There is a great market there. After a ship has been boarded, the natives mix freely with the ship’s folk. The chiefs are in the habit of using white umbrellas, for which reason the traders offer them as gifts. The custom for trade is for the local traders to assemble in crowds and carry the goods away with them in baskets; and, even if one cannot at first know them, and can but slowly distinguish the men who remove the goods, yet there will be no loss. The local traders then carry these goods on to other islands for barter, and as a rule takes them about eight – nine months before they return, when they repay the merchants on shipboard with what they have obtained for the goods. The products of the country consist of yellow wax (beeswax), cotton, pearls, tortoise-shell, medicinal betel nuts, fiber cloth (sinamay). The goods used in trading are porcelain, trade-gold, iron cauldrons, lead, colored glass beads, iron needles, pieces of iron, colored cotton stuffs, red taffetas, ivory, silks of different colors, copper pots, sycee shoes, and the like.” The San-hsu (or three islands) belong to Ma-i; their names are Kia-ma-yen (Kalamian or Culion), Pa-lau-yu (probably Penon de Coron) and Pa-ki-nung (probably Busuanga), and each has its own tribes scattered over the islands. When the ships arrive there, the natives come out to trade with them. In the remotest valleys, there lives another tribe called Hai-tan (Aetas). They are smaller in nature, they have curly hair and they nest in tree tops. Whenever foreign traders arrive at the settlements, they announce their presence to the natives by beating drums. Upon this, the natives race for the ships in small boats, carrying cotton, yellow wax, native cloth and coconut husk mats which they offer for barter. If the prices cannot be agreed upon, one or two of the natives remain on board the ship as hostages while the chief of the traders must go on shore to meet the native ruler in order to come to an understanding. These being reached the natives are offered presents of silk umbrellas, porcelain, and rattan baskets. After the traders return to their ships, the hostages are released. A ship will not remain at anchor longer than three days or four days which it proceeds to another place.” Several late Sung and Yuan period Chinese documents make frequent reference to the Philippine trade centers. Ports in Sulu are described to having a well developed organized network for exportable forest and maritime products (sandalwood, laka-wood, ebony, animal hides and pearls). The Sulu pearls are known to be whiter and rounder than those from other places and command a high price. In addition to the above, we find the following accounts of trade in Sulu from the brush of a Chinese author in 1349: “When a ship arrives there, the natives take all the goods and carry them for sale in the interior, while they also sell to the neighboring countries and when they come back, the native articles are delivered to the merchants as payment. The natives are always afraid that our ships will not return, and whenever a ship leaves they detain some men as hostages to make sure the ship will call again. “ Medieval Filipinos merchants and mercenaries were deemed as honest business entrepreneurs throughout Southeast Asia as stated by Wang-Ta-yuan in his Tao I Chih Lueh written in 1349 after 20 years of travels in the pursuit of overseas profits “The shipboard merchants advance them credit for never have they defaulted since the beginning.” During the early 14th century, the ties between Chinese- Philippines trade relations grew stronger. In 1406, in the reign of Chinese Emperor Ch’eng-tsu a Filipino chieftain visited the Imperial Court at Nanking and was presented gifts of horses, silver and other products. This was followed by other trips. Another visit occurred during Emperor Hung-wa’s reign in 1572 when the Filipino tribute embassy was welcomed at his court. Early Spanish documents provide a detailed documentation of the Southeast Asian trade industry. Asides from the Chinese junks; large trade ships from Borneo, Thailand and Japan were regularly arriving at some of the larger Philippine coastal ports: Manila, Mindoro, Pangasinan, Cebu, Jolo (Sulu), and Cotabato. Filipino traders had significant knowledge and presence at other Southeast Asian trade ports such as Melaka, Borneo, Ternate (Moluccas) and Myanmar. Chiefs in pre-Hispanic Philippines also financed and equipped outgoing trade voyages for foreign trade. Furthermore they made attempts to attract foreign trade partners by investing in port facilities, good harborage, military protection for merchants, housing, provision and entertainment for foreign traders, and developed efficient systems for mobilizing the trade goods. Sixteenth century descriptions of Manila records a well fortified heavily populated trade port with special quarters for Chinese and Japanese merchants and a well organized port area managed by a grand chieftain and a number of lesser chiefs. The blissful period of pre-Hispanic Philippines clearly indicates a sophisticated cultured people who focused on peaceful commercial trade, maritime exploration while maintaining friendly and viable economic relations with their neighbors. A far cry from the depictions made by European historians who portrayed a people whose existence began as a colony of Spain and for many years was deemed as the only source for the study of Philippine history. The purpose of this article is to remind this present generation about the grand history of their ninunos (forefathers) and rekindle our diwa (spirit of greatness) that has always been the heritage of the Filipino people. Charity Beyer-Bagatsing is the great-granddaughter of Dr. H. Otley Beyer. She is the guardian of the Beyer Library Collection and Publisher of Northwest Woman Magazine. To contact the author visit her website or e-mail: editor@northwestwoman.com Optional Photographs: From the H.O. Beyer Collection Bamboo with Baybayin writings on the outside and a scroll inside. Luxury Trade Goods from the Pre-Hispanic Period. Colored Glass Beads Green Ming Jarlet Ming Hole Bottom Dish Optional Sidebar: Author’s Research Sources Barangay: 16th Century Philippine Culture & Society William Henry Scott Pre-Hispanic Source Materials for the Study of Philippine History (Revised Edition) William Henry Scott Raiding, Trading and Feasting: The Political Economy of Philippine Chiefdoms Laura lee Junker 1421 The Year China Discovered America Gavin Menzies Magellan’s Voyage Around the World & the Discovery of the Philippines Antonio Pigafetta’s Milan Edition The Philippines Before Magellan Dr. H. O. Beyer The Philippine Saga Dr. H.O.Beyer & Jaime DeVeyra

21st March 2009, 04:14 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Great info everyone. Nice digging Miguel. Too bad we can't see the blades on those swords with the "Y" shaped hilts. Of course these illustrations are about 300 years past the time Steven is look for and i guess quite a bite can change in that amount of time, but it is at least something to go on.

21st March 2009, 05:31 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Fantastic work Miguel!!!! Now that is research... with excellent overview, resources and great suggestions. I think this will present some great perspective for Steven's project, and I would think he would be able to use this overview for a benchmark to direct toward whatever his project entails. I think the hardest questions to respond to are those which present intriguing topics, but are actually broader than they seem. To answer concisely, there are often many factors and variables that confound accuracy, as can be seen by the volume of detail required. Although the question on specific weapons in a specific period and region seems simple enough, the study of ethnographic weapons, or any of its aspects, is never that defined, as well pointed out by the excellent responses here. Nicely handled ! Thanks for the great information and interesting info guys!! My background on Phillipines history is pretty limited, so I appreciate the information here to follow up on as well. All best regards, Jim

21st March 2009, 06:16 AM	#7
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Hi Steve, I believe that we may be able to get an idea of the form and design of weapons by looking at those used by peoples in the Philippines that were least influenced by "civilization." Their weapons may have not changed much over many centuries, except for the gradual increase in the use of metal (obtained from the Chinese traders, etc.). Spears with metal points became more in use as trade increased, but the design remained. These were to replace (but not fully) those made from wood, bamboo or stone. The same is the case with bamboo/wooden arrows, which later had their metal counterparts. Spears and arrows are found everywhere in the Philippine islands - even in places where there was no apparent outside influence (Chinese, Japanese, Arab, etc). Stone adzes/axes may have also taken the same transformation. I can post some pics of arrows if you are interested in weaponry apart from swords and axes. I am reminded too of the Tasaday people which you might want to look into as well. Meanwhile, some islands which had trade contact with borneo and sumatra and/or inhabited by explorers/immigrants from the same brought with them their weapons. Thus, researching the weaponry in these places during the 13th century will provide some clues. However, whether or not one would regard these weapons as "Filipino" is debatable and there are valid points on both sides of the argument. As mentioned earlier, there was no such place called "Philippines" in the 13th century. It would help to consider the Philippines as a part of the larger austronesian group and thus IMHO good to look at the austronesian weaponry for clues. I hope i can provide more specific information. Unfortunately, I do not have access to my source materials at this time as I am traveling until May 2009. I can look into the matter if you are willing to wait.

21st March 2009, 06:39 AM	#8
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Hi Miguel, I will be back home (Manila) in May 2009. Shall we meet up again? Nonoy