Visayan "pinuti"

Ian · 23rd April 2005, 07:07 PM

Thanks Rick. That was my understanding too. Be interesting to see what other styles people think are also called Bonifacio.

Andres Bonifacio -- born November 30, 1863 in the town of Tondo (now part of Manila). Growing up in humble surroundings, he was a smart guy and self-educated. Inspired by Jose Rizal, Bonifacio joined Rizal's La Liga Filipina which had been founded in 1892 as a peaceful brotherhood and charitable organization. With the arrest and exile of Rizal by the Spanish Government later the same year, Bonifacio became convinced that armed revolution was necessary.

On July 7, 1892 he founded a group called the K.K.K. which stood for Kataastaasan Kagalang-galang na Katipunan nang manga Anak nang Bayan, or Katipunan, for short. A clandestine group that met secretly, it was open to Filipinos who sought to separate themselves from Spanish rule.

The Spanish uncovered the Katipunan plot on August 19, 1896, and set about capturing and executing the plotters. Bonifacio was ill prepared for a battle, but nevertheless, on August 30, 1896, led a band of 800 Katipuneros in an attack on a gunpowder storehouse in San Juan del Monte. An initially successful attack turned into disaster when Spanish reinorcements arrived. Nearly half of the Katipuneros were killed, or captured only to be executed shortly afterwards. Bonifacio and remnants of his group escaped to Cavite.

Shortly afterwards a rift developed between Bonifacio and Aguinaldo with the creation of two rival groups within the Katipunan. Aguinaldo eventually out manouvered Bonifacio and was elected the President of the revolutionary forces.

On April 26, 1897 Bonifacio was arrested by Aguinaldo's orders. Bonifacio, defiant to the end, put up a fight and was wounded during his capture. At a trial on May 8, 1897, both Bonifacio and his brother were sentenced to death by Aguinaldo's tribunal. Two days later they were executed near Lake Taal.

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 09:13 PM

Rick, I think the flat guard on yours may make it different (older? at least stylistically?) than the ones I, at least, think of, which have similar handles, though the dog head is less usual than a hoof shape, and I don't know whether the type crossquard I described can be said to characterize the form or not; it seems to be one of the newer evolutions of matulis, etc. What a sentence structure; hopefully someone can make sense of it; I must pry myself up and do an errand of helping.....

Rick · 23rd April 2005, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Rick, I think the flat guard on yours may make it different (older? at least stylistically?) than the ones I, at least, think of, which have similar handles, though the dog head is less usual than a hoof shape, and I don't know whether the type crossquard I described can be said to characterize the form or not; it seems to be one of the newer evolutions of matulis, etc. What a sentence structure; hopefully someone can make sense of it; I must pry myself up and do an errand of helping.....

I suspect this one is SpanAm era but am not positive .
I believe I bought it from Oliver Perrin .
The guard is slightly dished with the concave side toward the point .

tom hyle · 1st May 2005, 12:42 PM

The doghead hilt on Rick's sword is sometimes seen on European machete blades. The usual attribution is PI. Thanks for the instructions on posting ebay links, Rick; one time when I'm less clouded I'll try to understand them; I may even succeed. For now, one such sword with a leather scabbard is ebay # 6527728238 (closed auction). I recently got an English Mole blade of very similar form mounted in a wooden boot type handle (usually considered Mexican; it's a Mexican style cowboy boot....), and in an identical sheath (including the suspension system) to the ebay one. Pancolonialism?........

Rick · 1st May 2005, 01:13 PM

It's not really a dog Tom .
It looks much more like the WWII era Elzie Segar cartoon character 'Jeep' from Popeye ; some of us older members might remember him .
But then if it is Span Am war era it could be more of a demon head of sorts , albeit a friendly one .

tom hyle · 1st May 2005, 01:34 PM

I see what you're saying; I was going by the ears and thinking the rest fell under the category of stylization. Looks more like a cat, I suppose (the side view looks a bit like the Penn State cougar), or Eugene the Jeep (I recall it at least sometimes having said name

I suppose that makes the Jeep male, but who knows what it is? It isn't quite a baby.....). The ears, if anything, are bearlike, but could fall within cat or dog pretty easily, I think. Are there bears in PI? I'd expect so, but don't know. Interesting work on the ferule. Is the guard iron then?

Rick · 1st May 2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

I see what you're saying; I was going by the ears and thinking the rest fell under the category of stylization. Looks more like a cat, I suppose (the side view looks a bit like the Penn State cougar), or Eugene the Jeep (I recall it at least sometimes having said name

I suppose that makes the Jeep male, but who knows what it is? It isn't quite a baby.....). The ears, if anything, are bearlike, but could fall within cat or dog pretty easily, I think. Are there bears in PI? I'd expect so, but don't know. Interesting work on the ferule. Is the guard iron then?

Hi Tom , after giving the spine of the blade a close look with a strong magnifying glass I've come to the conclusion that there is a center core with cheeks of steel laminated on either side of the blade . This is most evident before the clip begins . So this would be a san mai type of construction then ?
I believe the guard is made from the same material as the cheeks ; I drew a file across a small part of the edge of the guard .

Ian · 1st May 2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

The doghead hilt on Rick's sword is sometimes seen on European machete blades. The usual attribution is PI. ... For now, one such sword with a leather scabbard is ebay # 6527728238 (closed auction). I recently got an English Mole blade of very similar form mounted in a wooden boot type handle (usually considered Mexican; it's a Mexican style cowboy boot....), and in an identical sheath (including the suspension system) to the ebay one. Pancolonialism?........

Tom:

I think those Mole swords with the Caribbean treatment almost always come from the West Indies. The one that you list has a scabbard marked Trinidad BWI (British West Indies) -- mostly WWII vintage I think. Quite common to see these with carved native heads on the hilts, and a wire wrap to the lower area of the hilt is common too.

Ian.

tom hyle · 1st May 2005, 03:12 PM

I agree (the one on ebay is wrapped in string, but wire is more common, and is what is on my boot sword, and is also common on N American both Indian and rural/low-caste work, too.), but what I find interesting is the form of the head; it is not one I see on ID'd Caribean stuff, but usually as PI.....do you think this is basically a matter of common mis-ID, and the type is Caribean? The head on Rick's is a bit different, but mainly in the nose, and seems to fit the category, while the blade, etc. are clearly PI....coincidence?

Federico · 23rd April 2005, 09:47 PM

Im with Rick and Ian, when I hear the word Bonifacio bolo, that is the style I think of. In modern terms, the vast majority of those Luzon "Negrito" bolo would fit with the Bonifacio style. Though along with what Spunjer is saying, I remember my dad telling me while this style is sold as the "Bonifacio" the actual bolo Bonifacio used was just a plain old bolo/itak. On a side note, my father used to tell me that the bolo his Waray Grandfather used for arnis, and called a sundang, was similar in blade shape to the "Bonifacio" style, just to throw some more confusion to the mix.

1st May 2005, 01:13 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	It's not really a dog Tom . It looks much more like the WWII era Elzie Segar cartoon character 'Jeep' from Popeye ; some of us older members might remember him . But then if it is Span Am war era it could be more of a demon head of sorts , albeit a friendly one . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 1st May 2005 at 09:26 PM.

1st May 2005, 03:12 PM	#9
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I agree (the one on ebay is wrapped in string, but wire is more common, and is what is on my boot sword, and is also common on N American both Indian and rural/low-caste work, too.), but what I find interesting is the form of the head; it is not one I see on ID'd Caribean stuff, but usually as PI.....do you think this is basically a matter of common mis-ID, and the type is Caribean? The head on Rick's is a bit different, but mainly in the nose, and seems to fit the category, while the blade, etc. are clearly PI....coincidence? Last edited by tom hyle; 1st May 2005 at 04:31 PM.

23rd April 2005, 07:07 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Thanks Rick. That was my understanding too. Be interesting to see what other styles people think are also called Bonifacio. Andres Bonifacio -- born November 30, 1863 in the town of Tondo (now part of Manila). Growing up in humble surroundings, he was a smart guy and self-educated. Inspired by Jose Rizal, Bonifacio joined Rizal's La Liga Filipina which had been founded in 1892 as a peaceful brotherhood and charitable organization. With the arrest and exile of Rizal by the Spanish Government later the same year, Bonifacio became convinced that armed revolution was necessary. On July 7, 1892 he founded a group called the K.K.K. which stood for Kataastaasan Kagalang-galang na Katipunan nang manga Anak nang Bayan, or Katipunan, for short. A clandestine group that met secretly, it was open to Filipinos who sought to separate themselves from Spanish rule. The Spanish uncovered the Katipunan plot on August 19, 1896, and set about capturing and executing the plotters. Bonifacio was ill prepared for a battle, but nevertheless, on August 30, 1896, led a band of 800 Katipuneros in an attack on a gunpowder storehouse in San Juan del Monte. An initially successful attack turned into disaster when Spanish reinorcements arrived. Nearly half of the Katipuneros were killed, or captured only to be executed shortly afterwards. Bonifacio and remnants of his group escaped to Cavite. Shortly afterwards a rift developed between Bonifacio and Aguinaldo with the creation of two rival groups within the Katipunan. Aguinaldo eventually out manouvered Bonifacio and was elected the President of the revolutionary forces. On April 26, 1897 Bonifacio was arrested by Aguinaldo's orders. Bonifacio, defiant to the end, put up a fight and was wounded during his capture. At a trial on May 8, 1897, both Bonifacio and his brother were sentenced to death by Aguinaldo's tribunal. Two days later they were executed near Lake Taal.

23rd April 2005, 09:13 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Rick, I think the flat guard on yours may make it different (older? at least stylistically?) than the ones I, at least, think of, which have similar handles, though the dog head is less usual than a hoof shape, and I don't know whether the type crossquard I described can be said to characterize the form or not; it seems to be one of the newer evolutions of matulis, etc. What a sentence structure; hopefully someone can make sense of it; I must pry myself up and do an errand of helping.....

1st May 2005, 12:42 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The doghead hilt on Rick's sword is sometimes seen on European machete blades. The usual attribution is PI. Thanks for the instructions on posting ebay links, Rick; one time when I'm less clouded I'll try to understand them; I may even succeed. For now, one such sword with a leather scabbard is ebay # 6527728238 (closed auction). I recently got an English Mole blade of very similar form mounted in a wooden boot type handle (usually considered Mexican; it's a Mexican style cowboy boot....), and in an identical sheath (including the suspension system) to the ebay one. Pancolonialism?........

1st May 2005, 01:34 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I see what you're saying; I was going by the ears and thinking the rest fell under the category of stylization. Looks more like a cat, I suppose (the side view looks a bit like the Penn State cougar), or Eugene the Jeep (I recall it at least sometimes having said name I suppose that makes the Jeep male, but who knows what it is? It isn't quite a baby.....). The ears, if anything, are bearlike, but could fall within cat or dog pretty easily, I think. Are there bears in PI? I'd expect so, but don't know. Interesting work on the ferule. Is the guard iron then?

23rd April 2005, 09:47 PM	#10
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Im with Rick and Ian, when I hear the word Bonifacio bolo, that is the style I think of. In modern terms, the vast majority of those Luzon "Negrito" bolo would fit with the Bonifacio style. Though along with what Spunjer is saying, I remember my dad telling me while this style is sold as the "Bonifacio" the actual bolo Bonifacio used was just a plain old bolo/itak. On a side note, my father used to tell me that the bolo his Waray Grandfather used for arnis, and called a sundang, was similar in blade shape to the "Bonifacio" style, just to throw some more confusion to the mix.