Gunong?

Ian · 23rd April 2005, 12:50 PM

Spunjer:

MOP may have been used earlier than WWII on scabbards, but I have not seen a convincing example. Perhaps others have.

Ian.

tom hyle · 23rd April 2005, 03:19 PM

It seems like one sees it on older kris sundang and barong scabbards? It's certainly not the MOP per se that I for my part was citing as Visayan-looking nor as modern, but the manner in which it is worked, in the pointy shapes with jagged edges.

Federico · 23rd April 2005, 10:04 PM

MOP is like any other dating feature/guess, it is not complete on its own, but can provide a hint. There are definitely swords pre-WWII from all over PI that feature MOP. I have seen some on scabbards from the 30s (notably talibong/garab/ok I forgot the last newest term for these weapons being bandied about), and earlier. But what sets apart the older use of MOP, at least in those piece that I have encountered, has been the usage. Usually alot more sparingly, and not as prolific as post WWII pieces. Hence the maybe part in my earlier comment. Its presence may indicate WWII era or later, but it is sparing enough in its usage where it could be older. I dunno, thats just how I feel about it, never feel certain, and Im usually just guessing and spouting stuff out my behind (ooh killing my own credibility here). You can always do what I normally do at home, hold the piece, and let it decide for itself what age it is and where its from. Not an exact science, ok not a science or methodology at all, but it helps me sleep at night in lieu of burning questions

Battara · 25th April 2005, 12:41 PM

Federico is right. MOP was used earlier, like the turn of the century. Other clues help in pinning down the date. My basis for attributing this to early to mid 20c is the workmanship of the scabbard and hilt overall. It is possible that the blade is earlier, but the rest is a different matter. For example, I have seen such scabbard workmanship like this on mostly (and up to this point only) mid 20c examples. The cut of MOP is not the type of quality used in earlier pieces. For instance check out an earlier discussion and pics of a kalis I have that has MOP and is turn of the century:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001825.html

25th April 2005, 12:41 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Federico is right. MOP was used earlier, like the turn of the century. Other clues help in pinning down the date. My basis for attributing this to early to mid 20c is the workmanship of the scabbard and hilt overall. It is possible that the blade is earlier, but the rest is a different matter. For example, I have seen such scabbard workmanship like this on mostly (and up to this point only) mid 20c examples. The cut of MOP is not the type of quality used in earlier pieces. For instance check out an earlier discussion and pics of a kalis I have that has MOP and is turn of the century: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001825.html Last edited by Battara; 25th April 2005 at 01:06 PM.

23rd April 2005, 12:50 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,454	Spunjer: MOP may have been used earlier than WWII on scabbards, but I have not seen a convincing example. Perhaps others have. Ian.

23rd April 2005, 03:19 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	It seems like one sees it on older kris sundang and barong scabbards? It's certainly not the MOP per se that I for my part was citing as Visayan-looking nor as modern, but the manner in which it is worked, in the pointy shapes with jagged edges.

23rd April 2005, 10:04 PM	#3
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	MOP is like any other dating feature/guess, it is not complete on its own, but can provide a hint. There are definitely swords pre-WWII from all over PI that feature MOP. I have seen some on scabbards from the 30s (notably talibong/garab/ok I forgot the last newest term for these weapons being bandied about), and earlier. But what sets apart the older use of MOP, at least in those piece that I have encountered, has been the usage. Usually alot more sparingly, and not as prolific as post WWII pieces. Hence the maybe part in my earlier comment. Its presence may indicate WWII era or later, but it is sparing enough in its usage where it could be older. I dunno, thats just how I feel about it, never feel certain, and Im usually just guessing and spouting stuff out my behind (ooh killing my own credibility here). You can always do what I normally do at home, hold the piece, and let it decide for itself what age it is and where its from. Not an exact science, ok not a science or methodology at all, but it helps me sleep at night in lieu of burning questions