War Shillelagh

[Queequeg]

Graeme, that's a nice one!! Do you own it? Any chance of some more pictures, perhaps in hand?

[graeme gt]

Yes its mine will take some more snaps .

[Queequeg]

I'm looking forward to these photos. Where did you get it? Any history you can share with us?

[graeme gt]

No history im afraid got it from antique dealer who knows i collect clubs .

[Tim Simmons]

Very scary man, with a white van? please dont hurt me

[colin henshaw]

Great stuff David. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. You may be interested in this description of the making of a Masai knobkerrie

Regards

[katana]

Thanks Colin ,
excellent stuff, much appreciated........ would you mind posting the next page.....my traditional Same is 'scabbard-less' ....and just as I got 'distracted' by the description of making the scabbard ....I realised it was incomplete ( ) Thank you

Kind Regards David

[colin henshaw]

Here is the next page David.

Best regards
Colin

[katana]

Thank you very much Colin

Regards David

[colin henshaw]

The name of the book is "Barefoot over the Serengeti" by David Read

[Tim Simmons]

Here is another East African example.

[colin henshaw]

Hi David

Interesting to see how your club is coming along. As far as I know, the concept of a weapon with a striking surface at one end and another striking or stabbing function at the other end, has not really developed and shown to be practical. Given the tens of thousand of years mankind has been inventing weapons, I suppose this means the concept has been tried and discarded.

The only possible examples I can think of are the Indian double-bladed dagger "haladie" and a rifle with a bayonet - the stock could be used also as a club "in extremis", although there must be others...

Regards.

[katana]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi David

Interesting to see how your club is coming along. As far as I know, the concept of a weapon with a striking surface at one end and another striking or stabbing function at the other end, has not really developed and shown to be practical. Given the tens of thousand of years mankind has been inventing weapons, I suppose this means the concept has been tried and discarded.

Regards.

Hi Colin,
thanks for the reply. A few years ago I saw an 'offset' knobkerrie with a spike set in the handle end. The short spike was around 3" long (exposed) from the leather covered 'handle'. Never got to handle it...and only seen from a distance. I assumed that a short spear butt had been added to the knobkerrie....whether originally or added later. I have heard of situations whereby weapons...African or otherwise were altered / changed (seemed more prevalent in the Victorian era ....perhaps 'their' love of 'fantasy' and the 'exotic' , fuelled these conversions )

My main question was the idea of counter-balancing the 'head' of the knobkerrie with a metal 'pommel'. Helping to balance a 'larger' head on a longer shaft would possibly make the 'function' more efficient. ie one aimed strike would be sufficent to dispatch your foe as the weight, length (increased speed / leverage) would generate much more 'impact energy' Longer shafted knobkerries have a smaller head ....and some accounts from the Zulu Wars suggest that a number of strikes were required ....unless an accurate strike to the head had occurred.

Perhaps, the use of the knobkerrie in battle does not require improvements in its design. The Zulu are reported as carrying a shield, spear and knobkerrie....perhaps the techniques / tactics used, meant that design of the knobkerrie was more than adequate.

Kind Regards David

[colin henshaw]

I've just had a look at the Pitt-Rivers Museum "Arms & Armour Virtual Gallery" website, and it has a picture of a South American club "Macana", that features a counter-weight at the butt end of the club, in the manner you were thinking of.

Perhaps you could experiment with the club you are making by attaching a temporary weight to the handle end ?

Of course, clubs/knobkerries were used in different ways - the Masai threw theirs at the enemy before a massed spear charge, but the Zulus tended to hold on to their clubs for hand to hand combat. Also some clubs would be for purely display/element of costume. The Zulus also had a knobkerrie with an enormous head that was used for the execution of condemned individuals.

There is also a huge range of clubs to be found in the Pacific and Australasia.
Some of the Fiji clubs would require warriors of great strength to wield them.

Best regards
Colin

[Tim Simmons]

There is this type of spiked club from South Sudan. Also one similar with a leaf shaped spear blade instead of the spike. They are short clubs so even with a big ball I think easily used in one hand and much like double pointed fighting sticks. pic from "C, Spring. African arms and armour"

[Lew]

graeme gt

I was getting a stiff neck so here you go.

Btw

Nice club


Lew

[M ELEY]

Wow! That is an incredible club! Very similar to the one from the movie that started this conversation. Forgive me, for I am a novice in this area of collecting, but are these made from the root bulb of the tree? The reason I ask is that I understand that some tribal people did this (as did native Americans, who would use rhododendren root). It looks like this last one might have had root tendrils or something, judging from its surface. Going out on a long limb here...

[graeme gt]

Hi its made from a root couldnt tell you which one tho .