A Rare 9th-12th Century Saber

TVV · 21st February 2009, 03:07 AM

Thanks Krock, the angle was fooling me, although to me it still appears that your sabre is curved and the auction sword is straight. From what I have read, the earliest sabres in Europe are attributed to the Avars based on a find in Zillingthal, nowadays Austria, dated to the Early Avar period (late 6th, early 7th century). Of course, dating can be subject to debate, but the graves certainly predate the Magyar arrival.
Overall, it can be really difficult to differentiate between the various steppe peoples in Eurasia from the 6th to the 10th century when it comes to swords.

kronckew · 21st February 2009, 09:17 AM

drawing a line across the top of the christie photo shows their 'slight curve' to be a bit less than mine, near enough straight.

i had a look at christies site for sale 5427 in london on 17DEC08 and did not see it in there, wonder what the lot no. was. there were a large no. of arms and armour in that sale no. some nice pieces.

Linky to christie's site for past sale 5427

Matchlock · 21st February 2009, 03:03 PM

Hi Kronckew,

As I wrote in the first line of my post the saber failed to sell so it does not show up in the revised version of the online catalog which comprises only sold pieces.

The lot no. was 131 and it is of course still there in my copy of the printed calalog.

Michael

kronckew · 21st February 2009, 03:12 PM

thanx for the larger sized pics which was what i was hoping to find. re the reason it was missing being it's lack of sale, i suspected that may be the case but was not sure.

Matchlock · 22nd February 2009, 05:57 PM

Another 9th century East European saber retaining its scabbard, preserved in the Profane Treasury Vienna. Although this had been attributed to such historic persons like Charlemagne or Attila by the romanticism of the 19th century these trials have been renounced of ever since.

Michael

Matchlock · 22nd February 2009, 06:02 PM

Once more, now without the distortion of the blade.

TVV · 22nd February 2009, 07:30 PM

Thank you Michael, this is a lovely sword, exceptionally well preserved and I doubt there is any doubt that it is Magyar indeed. I was able to see it in the Hofburg trasury early this year and tried to take pictures, but since using flash is forbidden, they did not come out too well.

21st February 2009, 03:07 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thanks Krock, the angle was fooling me, although to me it still appears that your sabre is curved and the auction sword is straight. From what I have read, the earliest sabres in Europe are attributed to the Avars based on a find in Zillingthal, nowadays Austria, dated to the Early Avar period (late 6th, early 7th century). Of course, dating can be subject to debate, but the graves certainly predate the Magyar arrival. Overall, it can be really difficult to differentiate between the various steppe peoples in Eurasia from the 6th to the 10th century when it comes to swords. Attached Images

21st February 2009, 09:17 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	drawing a line across the top of the christie photo shows their 'slight curve' to be a bit less than mine, near enough straight. i had a look at christies site for sale 5427 in london on 17DEC08 and did not see it in there, wonder what the lot no. was. there were a large no. of arms and armour in that sale no. some nice pieces. Linky to christie's site for past sale 5427 Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 21st February 2009 at 03:13 PM. Reason: better picture posted later

21st February 2009, 03:03 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Kronckew, As I wrote in the first line of my post the saber failed to sell so it does not show up in the revised version of the online catalog which comprises only sold pieces. The lot no. was 131 and it is of course still there in my copy of the printed calalog. Michael Attached Images

22nd February 2009, 05:57 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Another 9th century East European saber retaining its scabbard, preserved in the Profane Treasury Vienna. Although this had been attributed to such historic persons like Charlemagne or Attila by the romanticism of the 19th century these trials have been renounced of ever since. Michael Attached Images

22nd February 2009, 06:02 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Once more, now without the distortion of the blade. Attached Images

21st February 2009, 03:12 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	thanx for the larger sized pics which was what i was hoping to find. re the reason it was missing being it's lack of sale, i suspected that may be the case but was not sure.

22nd February 2009, 07:30 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thank you Michael, this is a lovely sword, exceptionally well preserved and I doubt there is any doubt that it is Magyar indeed. I was able to see it in the Hofburg trasury early this year and tried to take pictures, but since using flash is forbidden, they did not come out too well. Attached Images