Help with talismanic inscriptions?

VVV · 15th February 2009, 08:13 PM

Thanks both Ron and Arjan for sharing your knowledge.
As well as giving me new ideas on the meaning of the motifs of both the last and the first kris of this thread.

Michael

Tim Simmons · 16th February 2009, 06:11 PM

There are so many stars I cannot see the 5 star thing. I am not an expert acedemic but what I can see is a floral motif capped by a pattern of stars done in a most sensitive and economical manner in a confined space, so clever -beautiful in fact. If it does not represent paradise under the celestial sky? it is indeed very simple to read it so, one might think it was almost deliberate.

VVV · 16th February 2009, 07:29 PM

Tim,

The floral motif is quite common on Sulu kris.
Bill has earlier posted a very nice kris with this motif.
It seems to be a symbol for the sultanate?
The 5 stars are lower on the blade, inside and along the fuller.

Michael

Tim Simmons · 16th February 2009, 07:42 PM

There are still lots more stars? is the Sultan a Muslim? is the Sultanate Islamic? Perhaps the inclusion of the Sultan stars is some suggetion to ideas of an Islamic paradise/state on earth? is the 5 star configuration just a help with the overall decorative affect? No answers, but I think this is far from just random pretty sword decoration, it is purposeful. I think the artist would want other people to very quickly understand the imagery?

Battara · 17th February 2009, 12:16 AM

The 5 star pattern could represent the Sulu Sultanate, which uses 5 stars on the flag to represent the 5 territories under it's control at the time.

Tim Simmons · 17th February 2009, 07:23 AM

It is possible to see a pattern of 7 stars. One either side of the tighter group of 5. If the 5 stars patterns are to represent the Sultanate I see no conflict in a depiction of paradise. I just think it is very cleverly done such a lot of information in such a small space and still beatiful.

Tim Simmons · 20th February 2009, 07:31 AM

Scroll down to Paradise, lots of high art pictures in this site but does include Islam east of India?

http://www.patterninislamicart.com/b...ous-dimension/

16th February 2009, 06:11 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	There are so many stars I cannot see the 5 star thing. I am not an expert acedemic but what I can see is a floral motif capped by a pattern of stars done in a most sensitive and economical manner in a confined space, so clever -beautiful in fact. If it does not represent paradise under the celestial sky? it is indeed very simple to read it so, one might think it was almost deliberate. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 16th February 2009 at 06:22 PM.

16th February 2009, 07:42 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	There are still lots more stars? is the Sultan a Muslim? is the Sultanate Islamic? Perhaps the inclusion of the Sultan stars is some suggetion to ideas of an Islamic paradise/state on earth? is the 5 star configuration just a help with the overall decorative affect? No answers, but I think this is far from just random pretty sword decoration, it is purposeful. I think the artist would want other people to very quickly understand the imagery? Last edited by Tim Simmons; 16th February 2009 at 08:16 PM.

15th February 2009, 08:13 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks both Ron and Arjan for sharing your knowledge. As well as giving me new ideas on the meaning of the motifs of both the last and the first kris of this thread. Michael

16th February 2009, 07:29 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Tim, The floral motif is quite common on Sulu kris. Bill has earlier posted a very nice kris with this motif. It seems to be a symbol for the sultanate? The 5 stars are lower on the blade, inside and along the fuller. Michael

17th February 2009, 12:16 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	The 5 star pattern could represent the Sulu Sultanate, which uses 5 stars on the flag to represent the 5 territories under it's control at the time.

17th February 2009, 07:23 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	It is possible to see a pattern of 7 stars. One either side of the tighter group of 5. If the 5 stars patterns are to represent the Sultanate I see no conflict in a depiction of paradise. I just think it is very cleverly done such a lot of information in such a small space and still beatiful.

20th February 2009, 07:31 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Scroll down to Paradise, lots of high art pictures in this site but does include Islam east of India? http://www.patterninislamicart.com/b...ous-dimension/