Help pls. on 15th-17th C. cutlass & scimitar

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

I wonder if anyone can point me to a photo or an illustration of the following: [1] a cutlass (Spanish preferably) used in the 16th century; and ...

Originally Posted by celtan

... The spanish didn't have a cutlass per se until the early 19th C., when the Brit M 1804-05 began being fabricated (briefly) at Toledo. The M1728 regulation sword, sometimes with a field cut-down blade, was regularly used by the Navy. Otherwise, used cutlasses were mostly of Dutch, German and British provenance.

Thanks Manuel for this clarification! Appreciate it.

Dear all,

It would appear then that my query as posed originally would be an anachronism. So I guess I'd have to rephrase the inquiry as, "Can anybody please post here any image or info of a 16th Century Spanish sword?"

Now precisely on that specific subject, I found these two [below] 16th Century Spanish swords, at Arma Española as cited earlier.

I've tried using Yahoo! Babelfish for the translation. But I'm getting a not-so-clear translation. Can I kindly request for a proper English translation of the texts?

Thanks in advance!

[migueldiaz]

Since these previously posted images are just a few kilobytes each (and thus not burdensome on the server), and also for the convenience of all, please allow me to post here again some of the images lifted from Osprey's The Conquistadores.

[migueldiaz]

Some more ...

[migueldiaz]

Last set from Osprey's The Conquistadores ...

[migueldiaz]

Dear Fernando, Gonzalo, & Jim,

Thanks for the wealth of info that are pouring in! Super!

On the word "scimitar" it would appear then that for practical purposes, the word should be avoided. And the more convenient thing to do is to use more descriptive and precise terms.

Thanks for that 'resolution' and consensus

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

... I found these two [below] 16th Century Spanish swords, at Arma Española as cited earlier.

I've tried using Yahoo! Babelfish for the translation. But I'm getting a not-so-clear translation. Can I kindly request for a proper English translation of the texts?

So here's the original Spanish text, and the corresponding Babelfish translation. The translation is imperfect, but one gets the general idea. It wouldn't hurt though if we non-Spanish speaking folks can get a more decent translation

SWORD NO. 1

Spanish description:

ESPADA DE LAZO
Ref. 1-1550-B

(IOHANNES DE LA HORTA)
mediados del siglo XVI

Long T: 1270

GUARNICIÓN: De lazo, italianizante y algo asimétrica en su desarrollo. Nótese la presencia de un solo gavilán curvado hacia el interior, un solo pitón o gancho frontal dirigido hacia arriba y un gran puente que, en sutil curvatura, une la base de la patilla del interior con el arriaz. En el reverso tres ramas parten de las citadas patillas para reunirse en la base del aro guardamano. Escusón en afilada punta. Pomo casi cilíndrico con leve perilla superior. Puño facetado completamente alambrado con torzal, entre dos virolas en cabeza de turco. Todos los elementos se hallan cincelados y damasquinados.

HOJA:Ancha, llana (sin mesas marcadas) con dos filos y breve talón. Canal en su tercio fuerte.

INSCRIPCIÓN: IOHANES DE LA HORTA. Punzón A (en un cuadrado del recazo)

OBSERVACIONES: Según Palomares Iohanesde la Horta forjaba en Toledo en 1545.

English translation c/o Babelfish:

BOW SWORD

Ref 1-1550-B

(IOHANNES OF THE HORTA)

half-full of century XVI

Long T: 1270

TRIMMING: Of bow, italianizante and something asymmetric in its development. Nótese the presence of a single sparrowhawk curved towards the interior, a single pitón or frontal hook upwards directed and a great bridge that, in subtle curvature, unites the base of the sideburn of the interior with arriaz. In reverse the three branches they leave from the mentioned sideburns to meet in the base of the hoop hand guard. Escusón in sharpened end. Almost cylindrical Pomo with slight knob superior. Facetado fist completely fencing with torzal, between two ferrules in Turk head. All the elements are chiselled and damascene works.

LEAF: It widens, trowel (without noticeable tables) with two edges and brief heel. Channel in its strong third.

INSCRIPTION: IOHANES OF THE HORTA. Striker pin A (in squaring of the back)

OBSERVATIONS: According to Iohanesde Pigeon houses the Horta forged in Toledo in 1545.

Would anyone care to comment on the awkward translation?

Thanks!

[migueldiaz]

And the other one:

SWORD NO. 2

Spanish description:

ESPADA DE LAZO (TOLEDO)
finales siglo XVI

Ref. 1-1590-B

Long T: 1.290

GUARNICIÓN: De lazo, cincelada con maestría, con pomo troncocónico descansando sobre peana y ésa, a su vez, sobre virola. Puño cilíndrico con marcados surcos en espiral, arriazen cruz de rectos gavilanes y escusón central poligonal. El lazo propiamente dicho lo forman tres puentes frontales, de cuyo superior arranca un brazo hasta la mitad del aro, las ramas posteriores en número de tres y las patillas que surgen del arriazy, en arco de circunferencia, van a la base del recazo. Conjunto armónico y muy bien logrado.

HOJA: Ancha, con dos mesas por cara y canal central en su primer tercio. Filos a ambos lados.

INSCRIPCIÓN: TOLEDO

OBSERVACIONES: Situamos el arma a finales del s. XVI y comienzos del XVII época de oro de las espadas de lazo.

English translation c/o Babelfish:

BOW SWORD (TOLEDO)
end century XVI

Ref 1-1590-B

Long T: 1.290

TRIMMING: Of bow, chiselled with trunkated cone masters, pomo resting on pedestal and that one, as well, on ferrule. Cylindrical fist with noticeable furrows in spiral, arriazen cross of straight sparrowhawks and escusón central polygonal. Bow proper bridges form it three frontal, of whose superior it takes an arm until the later half of the hoop, branches in number of the three and sideburns that arise from arriazy, in circumference arc, go to the base of the back. Very well obtained harmonic set and.

LEAF: It widens, with two tables by face and central channel in his first third. Edges to both sides.

INSCRIPTION: TOLEDO

OBSERVATIONS: We locate the weapon at the end of the s. XVI and beginnings of XVII the time of gold of the bow swords.

The machine translation is for better translation, please?

[migueldiaz]

Still on the conquistadores, here's another title that I should buy one of these days: The Conquistador: 1492-1550.