Unknown Thai Chopper

Ian · 18th April 2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

The spine markings are identical to those found on many Montagnard dha, and the blade engravings (if not the inlay--those are quite unusual in my experience) similar to this dha of Mark's:
Northern Thai seems more and more likely for that one.

Yes, very similar markings and probably dating from about the same time. Mark's sword seems at least a hundred years old, perhaps second half of the 19th C. or earlier, and I would not be surprised if this chopper was made then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Montagnard dha spine markings:
Similar spine markings seem to appear on weapons from a wide geographic area, from China to the north right down through most of SEA.

Tom H. made a similar point with respect to the blade style, and the markings could be more widely distributed than simply northern Thailand and neighboring states. Perhaps the ill-defined term "hill tribe" might apply to the patterns.

Ian.

Conogre · 18th April 2005, 09:28 PM

Without seeing or handling it in person, my first impulse is to say the it was probably a"state" weapon, as used by guards at the gates, for example, as opposed to a general purpose melee weapon.
It's my understanding that the area was, and still is in many instances, heavily occupied by local warlords, each with their own retinue and weapons such as this would seem ideal.
The work put into it suggests more than purely decorative intent, while, like many polearms, the form likely had its beginnings as an agricultural tool.
Would not a piece such as this also be effective against horsemen?
While not something many westerners think of, the elephants were not, by far, the only animals ridden into battle in SE Asia.
Mike

Ian · 18th April 2005, 11:49 PM

Thanks Mike.

A guard's weapon seems quite plausible. It would certainly be a handsome accessory for the personal body guard of a distinguished war lord.

Not sure about the foot soldier's answer to mounted cavalry -- perhaps a little on the short side for that purpose.

Another possibility might be for rampart defense. JP gave a very nice talk at Timonium about koras, and he showed pictures of several very heavy kora used for rampart defenses. This one is nowhere close to as heavy as those brutes, but it could possibly have a similar purpose within the Thai armamentarium.

Ian.

Conogre · 19th April 2005, 02:49 AM

By the way, I won a pisau raut last year and when it got here it took me completely by suprise, being 20" overall with a heavy 7", razor sharp blade.
A "nasty cut" would be a major understatement.
While it's obviously not made to be a weapon, the fact that the handle curve matches and is an extension of the blade curve means it could easily remove a whole hand in a pinch!
Possibly for splitting whole palm trees?
Mike

Ian · 19th April 2005, 03:24 AM

Yes, Mike, those pisau are handy-dandy work knives that would serve as a weapon in a pinch. Mainly used by women in my (limited) experience of seeing them in action. Extremely sharp as you say.

Ian.

Conogre · 19th April 2005, 06:24 AM

Sometimes, discussions accidently seed the germ of further discussions.....while looking at the photos of the pisa raut and reading your comments about women, the similarity in blade shape, down to being sharpend on the outer edge suddenly made the lumad "women's knives" pop into mind.
With that said, I'll stop here and apologize for hijacking your thread, as that was not my intent.
Mike

Mark · 19th April 2005, 12:46 PM

Forgive my ignorance, is the pisau the one on the top? If so it closely resembles a dha-mauk, which has a shorter handle, but is used to cut toddy palms (to get the liquer out, from which they make ... liquer, actually. Teh long handle would help reaching the heart (growing apex), which as I understand it is where the incision is made.

18th April 2005, 11:49 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Excellent suggestions ... Thanks Mike. A guard's weapon seems quite plausible. It would certainly be a handsome accessory for the personal body guard of a distinguished war lord. Not sure about the foot soldier's answer to mounted cavalry -- perhaps a little on the short side for that purpose. Another possibility might be for rampart defense. JP gave a very nice talk at Timonium about koras, and he showed pictures of several very heavy kora used for rampart defenses. This one is nowhere close to as heavy as those brutes, but it could possibly have a similar purpose within the Thai armamentarium. Ian.

19th April 2005, 02:49 AM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	By the way, I won a pisau raut last year and when it got here it took me completely by suprise, being 20" overall with a heavy 7", razor sharp blade. A "nasty cut" would be a major understatement. While it's obviously not made to be a weapon, the fact that the handle curve matches and is an extension of the blade curve means it could easily remove a whole hand in a pinch! Possibly for splitting whole palm trees? Mike Attached Images

18th April 2005, 09:28 PM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Without seeing or handling it in person, my first impulse is to say the it was probably a"state" weapon, as used by guards at the gates, for example, as opposed to a general purpose melee weapon. It's my understanding that the area was, and still is in many instances, heavily occupied by local warlords, each with their own retinue and weapons such as this would seem ideal. The work put into it suggests more than purely decorative intent, while, like many polearms, the form likely had its beginnings as an agricultural tool. Would not a piece such as this also be effective against horsemen? While not something many westerners think of, the elephants were not, by far, the only animals ridden into battle in SE Asia. Mike

19th April 2005, 03:24 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Yes, Mike, those pisau are handy-dandy work knives that would serve as a weapon in a pinch. Mainly used by women in my (limited) experience of seeing them in action. Extremely sharp as you say. Ian.

19th April 2005, 06:24 AM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Sometimes, discussions accidently seed the germ of further discussions.....while looking at the photos of the pisa raut and reading your comments about women, the similarity in blade shape, down to being sharpend on the outer edge suddenly made the lumad "women's knives" pop into mind. With that said, I'll stop here and apologize for hijacking your thread, as that was not my intent. Mike

19th April 2005, 12:46 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Forgive my ignorance, is the pisau the one on the top? If so it closely resembles a dha-mauk, which has a shorter handle, but is used to cut toddy palms (to get the liquer out, from which they make ... liquer, actually. Teh long handle would help reaching the heart (growing apex), which as I understand it is where the incision is made.