kaskara konundrum

Jim McDougall · 24th January 2009, 09:33 PM

[QUOTE=LOUIEBLADES]Did anyone here notice that the fullers are on only one side and seem to run the length of the blade? Kaskaras have either one wide central fuller or three thin fullers in the center of the blade. So I still say it's Indian or at least was made for the Indian market. I can see now this could have been a European trade blade that was meant to be exported to India but some how was rerouted to the Sudan?

Click on this link>http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=3445

You will see a standard European trade blade with cresent moons used on a tulwar so this proves my point that the reverse situation happened here on this kaskara.

Lew[/QUOTE

Actually David, Stephen and I were keyed to the fact that the fullers being on one side suggested this blade had been a backsword (single edged) blade of the type exported from Europe, and often found in India on the khanda (firangi). As David had noted, and you have observed, the centrally placed triple fullers are typical of African native blades of North Africa.
It seems we all agree this is likely a blade from India, with blade ground off back to correspond to the broadsword (DE) preference in kaskara country

As also noted earlier, the crescent (sickle) marks are uncommon appearing singly on North African swords, and usually occur on trade blades along with other familiar marks such as 'ANDREA FERARA' or others, with the term 'FRINGIA' or its variants more rarely being instances that come to mind.
The sickle mark was however, extremely common on firangi backsword (SE) blades, and this rather crudely applied mark suggests native rather than European made, though in interpretation of those blades.

This is most definitely an unusual example of modernly refurbished kaskara, that I remain convinced was from Darfur, with the most intriguing feature the use of the crude crossguard and rivet type affectation on its center. This is all the more interesting as it appears a vestigial application, apparantly having no structural purpose, and clear departure from the keenly tradition mounts used in these regions.

Well done Charles !!!!

All the best,
Jim

Lew · 24th January 2009, 10:22 PM

Actually David, Stephen and I were keyed to the fact that the fullers being on one side suggested this blade had been a backsword (single edged) blade of the type exported from Europe, and often found in India on the khanda (firangi). As David had noted, and you have observed, the centrally placed triple fullers are typical of African native blades of North Africa.
It seems we all agree this is likely a blade from India, with blade ground off back to correspond to the broadsword (DE) preference in kaskara country

Well done Charles !!!!

All the best,
Jim[/QUOTE]

Jim

I am in full agreement with you it was Ariel's statement that the blade was a crude village made piece that I disagreed with. The eyelash looked well struck but worn something just clicked in my head that said it could not be a village made blade to me.

Lew

Jim McDougall · 25th January 2009, 04:18 PM

Thanks Lew, and in looking at this again, and again, the more I sense this is possibly European, and as always in most cases with blades of the period I am presuming for this one, end of the 18th to earlier 19th, probably Solingen. With the mark apparantly well struck, despite being somewhat worn, as to be expected, this blade seems anything but village work, despite the fact that the African blades were often quite good. As I had earlier mentioned, these 'sickle/eyelash/hogsback' etc. marks were uncommon in Africa as used here, as far as I know, and again, the single edge blade was not preferred in North African swords of this full length type. Broadswords were however, which is why this was ground down at the back, a dramatically unusual case which seems to correspond to the equally unusual characteristics on the guard.

It is not surprising to consider that a blade that perhaps arrived in North Africa in trade originating in India, and moved transcontinent westward, would suggest possible influence from artisans there in its mounts. Trade did not only exchange commodities, but all manner of socialization and influence.For a Sudanese artisan to adopt style seen on Indian sword examples or for an immigrant Indian worker to apply his own interpretation to a sword being refurbished for a Fur tribesman, does not seem at all far fetched, especially in the ever diversifying modern world.

Norman, thank you for the follow up on that tulwar hilt! I do remember that, and it really is helpful to have that detail for further reference. Since I do not have weapons to handle physically, it is great to have such great detail to examine closely.

All very best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 25th January 2009, 05:19 PM

From these pictures I cannot see that the back edge has been ground. Surely that would still leave one side heavier than the other no matter how careful? It seems a very labourious way to fiddle with a perfectly good sword that in essence still only cuts on one edge? and make lots of temper altering heat? Also it is not as if supplies of forged double edged kaskara blades were in sort supply. The answers can only come from far more pictures.

24th January 2009, 09:33 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,306	[QUOTE=LOUIEBLADES]Did anyone here notice that the fullers are on only one side and seem to run the length of the blade? Kaskaras have either one wide central fuller or three thin fullers in the center of the blade. So I still say it's Indian or at least was made for the Indian market. I can see now this could have been a European trade blade that was meant to be exported to India but some how was rerouted to the Sudan? Click on this link>http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=3445 You will see a standard European trade blade with cresent moons used on a tulwar so this proves my point that the reverse situation happened here on this kaskara. Lew[/QUOTE Actually David, Stephen and I were keyed to the fact that the fullers being on one side suggested this blade had been a backsword (single edged) blade of the type exported from Europe, and often found in India on the khanda (firangi). As David had noted, and you have observed, the centrally placed triple fullers are typical of African native blades of North Africa. It seems we all agree this is likely a blade from India, with blade ground off back to correspond to the broadsword (DE) preference in kaskara country As also noted earlier, the crescent (sickle) marks are uncommon appearing singly on North African swords, and usually occur on trade blades along with other familiar marks such as 'ANDREA FERARA' or others, with the term 'FRINGIA' or its variants more rarely being instances that come to mind. The sickle mark was however, extremely common on firangi backsword (SE) blades, and this rather crudely applied mark suggests native rather than European made, though in interpretation of those blades. This is most definitely an unusual example of modernly refurbished kaskara, that I remain convinced was from Darfur, with the most intriguing feature the use of the crude crossguard and rivet type affectation on its center. This is all the more interesting as it appears a vestigial application, apparantly having no structural purpose, and clear departure from the keenly tradition mounts used in these regions. Well done Charles !!!! All the best, Jim

24th January 2009, 10:22 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Actually David, Stephen and I were keyed to the fact that the fullers being on one side suggested this blade had been a backsword (single edged) blade of the type exported from Europe, and often found in India on the khanda (firangi). As David had noted, and you have observed, the centrally placed triple fullers are typical of African native blades of North Africa. It seems we all agree this is likely a blade from India, with blade ground off back to correspond to the broadsword (DE) preference in kaskara country Well done Charles !!!! All the best, Jim[/QUOTE] Jim I am in full agreement with you it was Ariel's statement that the blade was a crude village made piece that I disagreed with. The eyelash looked well struck but worn something just clicked in my head that said it could not be a village made blade to me. Lew

25th January 2009, 04:18 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,306	Thanks Lew, and in looking at this again, and again, the more I sense this is possibly European, and as always in most cases with blades of the period I am presuming for this one, end of the 18th to earlier 19th, probably Solingen. With the mark apparantly well struck, despite being somewhat worn, as to be expected, this blade seems anything but village work, despite the fact that the African blades were often quite good. As I had earlier mentioned, these 'sickle/eyelash/hogsback' etc. marks were uncommon in Africa as used here, as far as I know, and again, the single edge blade was not preferred in North African swords of this full length type. Broadswords were however, which is why this was ground down at the back, a dramatically unusual case which seems to correspond to the equally unusual characteristics on the guard. It is not surprising to consider that a blade that perhaps arrived in North Africa in trade originating in India, and moved transcontinent westward, would suggest possible influence from artisans there in its mounts. Trade did not only exchange commodities, but all manner of socialization and influence.For a Sudanese artisan to adopt style seen on Indian sword examples or for an immigrant Indian worker to apply his own interpretation to a sword being refurbished for a Fur tribesman, does not seem at all far fetched, especially in the ever diversifying modern world. Norman, thank you for the follow up on that tulwar hilt! I do remember that, and it really is helpful to have that detail for further reference. Since I do not have weapons to handle physically, it is great to have such great detail to examine closely. All very best regards, Jim

25th January 2009, 05:19 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,858	From these pictures I cannot see that the back edge has been ground. Surely that would still leave one side heavier than the other no matter how careful? It seems a very labourious way to fiddle with a perfectly good sword that in essence still only cuts on one edge? and make lots of temper altering heat? Also it is not as if supplies of forged double edged kaskara blades were in sort supply. The answers can only come from far more pictures.