Non European forces proving themselves Vs European military might

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

I am under the impression that you give much importance to the swords, which I believe were not a primary weapon in those times, nor they decided the result of the battles...

Lances, classic swords, two handed swords (montantes), rapiers and even halberds, according to chronicles; each one was a primary weapon ,depending on the circumstances.

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

... Also, you have to take on account that tulwars or shamshir were used in combination with shields ...

Correct.

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

... and fencing was not made mainly as among 19th Century european troops, or as in a civil fight with rapiers.

I guess the concept of troops was rather distinct in earlier days .
I may be mixing things, but it seems as combat fencing (manouverable sword and rapier) was schooled among nobles, a lot much earlier than that .

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

... I don´t believe a classic rapier is capable to stop heavy weapons without been seriousy damaged.

I guess they wouldn't stop them with the rapier, but with their left hand dagger. Besides, warlike rapier blades were not so fragile as those from street fighting.

But don't hit me hard, Gonzalo; i wouldn't resist a serious test in the subject

Fernando

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by fernando

Lances, classic swords, two handed swords (montantes), rapiers and even halberds, according to chronicles; each one was a primary weapon ,depending on the circumstances.

That is correct, Fernand. Excuse me, but I was writting about cavalry, but latter edited my words and the meaning changed inadvertly.

Originally Posted by fernando

I may be mixing things, but it seems as combat fencing (manouverable sword and rapier) was schooled among nobles, a lot much earlier than that .

No, you are not mixing. It was schooled much earlier. I was trying to say that fencing encounters sword vs. sword like those on the 19th Europe were not the rule in colonial fighting, though they were also used. It is only my impression, as I have noted the presence of shields and lances, and yes, also bows and crossbows, in those fights. This, would change the meaning of the fencing analysis you have previously made, as the defenders would no use their swords to parry or thrust in the way europeans did with their swords.

Originally Posted by fernando

I guess they wouldn't stop them with the rapier, but with their left hand dagger. Besides, warlike rapier blades were not so fragile as those from street fighting.

I don´t believe a left hand dagger would stop a serious blow given with a heavy sword. Too short to make an efective lever aginst it. I was referring to a classical rapier because it is mentioned in previous posts in relation with the fencing style. But as you say, colonial european armies did not used the classic rapier (sissy blades? hahahaha).
Regards

Gonzalo