Translation assistance on an Arab jambiya

Jeff D · 22nd January 2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Good question!
Al Kindi asserted that the best wootz ( jouhar) was manufactured in Yemen.
However, where are these famous Yemeni blades?

Where are any blades from Kindi's time 801–873 CE? A few at the Topkapi, not much to work with.

All the Best
Jeff

ward · 22nd January 2009, 05:39 AM

I think Jeff is right. This blade looks like Persian wootz to me, whether it was forged there or in Yemen is the question. Persian smiths worked everywhere in the Mddle East too, dont forget

kahnjar1 · 22nd January 2009, 07:20 AM

Hi Rick,
I can not comment on the blade, but the hilt style is Meccan.Very nice piece by the way!
Regards Stuart

Rick · 22nd January 2009, 04:58 PM

Thanks for that information Stuart .

It is a lovely piece of work; doubtless this is going into your personal collection Rick .

Congrats !!

Lew · 22nd January 2009, 05:04 PM

Rick

Can you post a pic of the entire blade? The center rib seems quite heavy and thick would like to see how the tip is done on this piece.

RSWORD · 23rd January 2009, 03:35 AM

Thanks for all the feedback. I am sure there was a woostz making tradition in Yemen but apparently that became lost over time otherwise we would have more woostz-bladed Arabian jambiya, no? As Ward suggests, the watering of the blade is most often associated with Persia and those smiths traveled around.

Rick, yes, this is definitely going into the private collection. It will be part of my table display at the Timonium show where I will be exhibiting "some edge weapons with seldom encountered woostz blades". It would be great if you could make it down!

Lew, per your request, here is a picture of the overall blade. The midrib is quick thick but so is the point. The edge has lost a bit on one side near the tip from repeated sharpenings but the tip of this blade is no joke.

Gonzalo G · 23rd January 2009, 01:06 PM

!Great piece, RSWORD! Sumptuos, but sober in it´s way. Very elegant. The blade is beautiful and interesting. I agree with you. It seems the Yemen decadence was substantial when the califate under Abbasids traslated their center from Damascus to Baghdad on the 8th Century, affecting trade routes from which yemeni obtained their living. Also, the arab conquest seems to have altered their direct trade with Byzantium, on which much of their economy was based. There are also references to the begininng of their decadence as early as the 6th Century, as a result of the end of the Himyarite control over this area, and the lost of stability since then. This a subject needed of more research. There are also some evidence that Yemen was an important trade route linking East Africa and the indian and indonesian states, with the mediterranean area. This opens an interesting possibility of linking technologies from the indian area and Ceylan, with those in the Yemen. But the end of wootz production could be ending in the time of Al-Kindi, and only archeological discoveries could bring some more data about it, and so some of this renowned blades, which now are lost.
Regards

23rd January 2009, 03:35 AM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Thanks for all the feedback. I am sure there was a woostz making tradition in Yemen but apparently that became lost over time otherwise we would have more woostz-bladed Arabian jambiya, no? As Ward suggests, the watering of the blade is most often associated with Persia and those smiths traveled around. Rick, yes, this is definitely going into the private collection. It will be part of my table display at the Timonium show where I will be exhibiting "some edge weapons with seldom encountered woostz blades". It would be great if you could make it down! Lew, per your request, here is a picture of the overall blade. The midrib is quick thick but so is the point. The edge has lost a bit on one side near the tip from repeated sharpenings but the tip of this blade is no joke. Attached Images

22nd January 2009, 05:39 AM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I think Jeff is right. This blade looks like Persian wootz to me, whether it was forged there or in Yemen is the question. Persian smiths worked everywhere in the Mddle East too, dont forget

22nd January 2009, 07:20 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,813	Hi Rick, I can not comment on the blade, but the hilt style is Meccan.Very nice piece by the way! Regards Stuart

22nd January 2009, 04:58 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Thanks for that information Stuart . It is a lovely piece of work; doubtless this is going into your personal collection Rick . Congrats !!

22nd January 2009, 05:04 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rick Can you post a pic of the entire blade? The center rib seems quite heavy and thick would like to see how the tip is done on this piece.

23rd January 2009, 01:06 PM	#7
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	!Great piece, RSWORD! Sumptuos, but sober in it´s way. Very elegant. The blade is beautiful and interesting. I agree with you. It seems the Yemen decadence was substantial when the califate under Abbasids traslated their center from Damascus to Baghdad on the 8th Century, affecting trade routes from which yemeni obtained their living. Also, the arab conquest seems to have altered their direct trade with Byzantium, on which much of their economy was based. There are also references to the begininng of their decadence as early as the 6th Century, as a result of the end of the Himyarite control over this area, and the lost of stability since then. This a subject needed of more research. There are also some evidence that Yemen was an important trade route linking East Africa and the indian and indonesian states, with the mediterranean area. This opens an interesting possibility of linking technologies from the indian area and Ceylan, with those in the Yemen. But the end of wootz production could be ending in the time of Al-Kindi, and only archeological discoveries could bring some more data about it, and so some of this renowned blades, which now are lost. Regards