Introduction with a question

kulbuntet · 16th January 2009, 10:59 PM

Hi Sajen,

welcome to forum. As i can see from your pics.. i think it may be ivory. can you post biger pic of only the hilt? i see stucture that may resemble elefant ivory structure.. crosed lines.. i doubt it is whale bone or other bone.. but im no expert.

regards Michel

David · 17th January 2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

Hi Sajen,

welcome to forum. As i can see from your pics.. i think it may be ivory. can you post biger pic of only the hilt? i see stucture that may resemble elefant ivory structure.. crosed lines.. i doubt it is whale bone or other bone.. but im no expert.

regards Michel

Michel, it is not the hilt that is in question. I believe that is ivory too. It is the sheath that is made of some sort of bone, with ivory at the tip as a buntut.

Marcokeris · 17th January 2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Michel, it is not the hilt that is in question. I believe that is ivory too. It is the sheath that is made of some sort of bone, with ivory at the tip as a buntut.

IMO, deer horn.

Henk · 17th January 2009, 02:31 PM

Scabbard is whalebone. Ukiran and buntut are ivory.

Sajen · 17th January 2009, 02:32 PM

Hello Michel, yes the hilt is from elephant-ivory for sure. Also the buntut is from this material.

Hello Marcokeris, I be in doubt that the warangka is from deer horn. It's 11,5 cm long and where the gandar go inside 5,5 cm high. I've never seen a large deer horn like this especial when you consider the some material have to be carved away.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 17th January 2009, 02:48 PM

Hello Henk, do you have experience how heavy whalebone is? I am not, but the sheat is very heavy. Like I note in up my first guess also have been that it is whalebone. And it puzzled that Mrs. Ghiringhelli don't know about this material.
Regards,
Detlef

Rick · 17th January 2009, 04:22 PM

More on Whale bone .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=whale+bone

tunggulametung · 17th January 2009, 04:53 PM

Pak Detlef,

Can not help to confirm but there are some nice info about whale bone here: http://www.flyingturtle.org/askdrg/askdrgalapagos3.html
and interesting quote from the page below:
While whale bones are real bones, they are apparantly a little "spongier" and less stiff than most land animal bones.
One of our sources says whale bones are full of oil and very smelly while they are "drying".

For that sheath size, I think cow/buffalo bone is also possible (?), but I'm not sure either, but sure it is more readily available. I remember to hold 'tourist' keris sheath made of bone, not sure if it is made of whale bone or other material but it is bone for sure (I tend to believe cow/buffalo), similar to yours but undyed so it is lighter in color. It is heavy and smells like bone

But I don't know if we can find large enough material from cow/buffalo for the sampir.

Henk · 17th January 2009, 07:21 PM

Detlef,

I thought to recognize some of the whalebone structure on your pictures. Whalebone is not much more heavier than cow or buffalo bone. As tunggulametung wrote, the structure of whalebone is more spongier. Maybe you can make a clear picture from the inside of the wrongko. Maybe the unpolished part of the material could tell us more.
Whalebone seems to be not an unusual material for kerissheaths. I'm not familiar with your Mrs. Ghiringhelli and don't know why she doesn't know about this material.

erikscollectables · 17th January 2009, 07:40 PM

I have a hilt of similair material as this sheath and it is posted above. It is clearly different from any other bone hilt I have in my collection. Both structure and coulour are quite different from the regular bone hilts I have seen so far. The person with whom I traded it mentioned it that it is whalebone. So without any in depth knowledge I still go for whalebone untill a better option comes along....

Regards, Erik

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Pak Detlef,

Can not help to confirm but there are some nice info about whale bone here: http://www.flyingturtle.org/askdrg/askdrgalapagos3.html
and interesting quote from the page below:
While whale bones are real bones, they are apparantly a little "spongier" and less stiff than most land animal bones.
One of our sources says whale bones are full of oil and very smelly while they are "drying".

For that sheath size, I think cow/buffalo bone is also possible (?), but I'm not sure either, but sure it is more readily available. I remember to hold 'tourist' keris sheath made of bone, not sure if it is made of whale bone or other material but it is bone for sure (I tend to believe cow/buffalo), similar to yours but undyed so it is lighter in color. It is heavy and smells like bone

But I don't know if we can find large enough material from cow/buffalo for the sampir.

16th January 2009, 10:59 PM	#1
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Hi Sajen, welcome to forum. As i can see from your pics.. i think it may be ivory. can you post biger pic of only the hilt? i see stucture that may resemble elefant ivory structure.. crosed lines.. i doubt it is whale bone or other bone.. but im no expert. regards Michel

17th January 2009, 02:31 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Scabbard is whalebone. Ukiran and buntut are ivory.

17th January 2009, 02:32 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,325	Hello Michel, yes the hilt is from elephant-ivory for sure. Also the buntut is from this material. Hello Marcokeris, I be in doubt that the warangka is from deer horn. It's 11,5 cm long and where the gandar go inside 5,5 cm high. I've never seen a large deer horn like this especial when you consider the some material have to be carved away. Regards, Detlef

17th January 2009, 02:48 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,325	Hello Henk, do you have experience how heavy whalebone is? I am not, but the sheat is very heavy. Like I note in up my first guess also have been that it is whalebone. And it puzzled that Mrs. Ghiringhelli don't know about this material. Regards, Detlef

17th January 2009, 04:22 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	More on Whale bone . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=whale+bone

17th January 2009, 04:53 PM	#8
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Pak Detlef, Can not help to confirm but there are some nice info about whale bone here: http://www.flyingturtle.org/askdrg/askdrgalapagos3.html and interesting quote from the page below: While whale bones are real bones, they are apparantly a little "spongier" and less stiff than most land animal bones. One of our sources says whale bones are full of oil and very smelly while they are "drying". For that sheath size, I think cow/buffalo bone is also possible (?), but I'm not sure either, but sure it is more readily available. I remember to hold 'tourist' keris sheath made of bone, not sure if it is made of whale bone or other material but it is bone for sure (I tend to believe cow/buffalo), similar to yours but undyed so it is lighter in color. It is heavy and smells like bone But I don't know if we can find large enough material from cow/buffalo for the sampir.

17th January 2009, 07:21 PM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Detlef, I thought to recognize some of the whalebone structure on your pictures. Whalebone is not much more heavier than cow or buffalo bone. As tunggulametung wrote, the structure of whalebone is more spongier. Maybe you can make a clear picture from the inside of the wrongko. Maybe the unpolished part of the material could tell us more. Whalebone seems to be not an unusual material for kerissheaths. I'm not familiar with your Mrs. Ghiringhelli and don't know why she doesn't know about this material.