Another theoretical question: what are those Central African swords used for anyway?

tom hyle · 17th April 2005, 07:41 AM

I don't know; I think some of them (mambele sheild-walking throwers) ARE advanced designs. By and large, I do not believe that continents fall to swords, but to economics, tricks, germs, and guns (when they are on one side, or tremendously more numerous/advanced on one side, though IMHO far too much credit is given to guns, too, and as to Eurpean ships and sailing ability during the expansion? I don't mean to be rude, but it is to laugh; compare the Indian Ocean; compare polynesia.......).

fearn · 17th April 2005, 04:56 PM

Hi Tom,

Do you (or anyone else reading this) remember the "african martial arts" video instructions that popped up about a decade ago? There was someone teaching stick fighting and wrestling from somewhere in Africa. That tape's probably still available somewhere. I've also seen some work done in Nigeria that identified a number of martial traditions (including several apparent ancestors for Capoeira, which I used to practice). So, I'm definitely not one of those saying that the Africans didn't have their martial traditions.

Mostly, I'm trying to understand their weapons in context. As I posted earlier, I'm beginning to suspect that spears and bows were the primary weapons for some groups, and these funky swords that we know so much more about were primarily social tools (rank markers, ritual tools, and art) and secondarily weapons.

One thing that gets this list in trouble is that we tend to focus on the swords, knives, and axes, because of their artistic value and striking shapes. A boringly functional spear (especially if it's hard to classify) will get a lot less attention from collectors. Ditto with those boring bows, although there's one example of a hunter whose everyday hunting bow shot as far as the competition bow a European hunter had on safari (Traditional Bowyer's Bible, vol.1).

Fearn

Tim Simmons · 17th April 2005, 05:08 PM

Hi Fearn,I am really keen on boring plain spears and fighting sticks.Ssssh or they will all want one,if they can not see it, thats their problem.Tim

17th April 2005, 05:08 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Hi Fearn,I am really keen on boring plain spears and fighting sticks.Ssssh or they will all want one,if they can not see it, thats their problem.Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 17th April 2005 at 05:16 PM. Reason: I can not spell

17th April 2005, 07:41 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I don't know; I think some of them (mambele sheild-walking throwers) ARE advanced designs. By and large, I do not believe that continents fall to swords, but to economics, tricks, germs, and guns (when they are on one side, or tremendously more numerous/advanced on one side, though IMHO far too much credit is given to guns, too, and as to Eurpean ships and sailing ability during the expansion? I don't mean to be rude, but it is to laugh; compare the Indian Ocean; compare polynesia.......).

17th April 2005, 04:56 PM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tom, Do you (or anyone else reading this) remember the "african martial arts" video instructions that popped up about a decade ago? There was someone teaching stick fighting and wrestling from somewhere in Africa. That tape's probably still available somewhere. I've also seen some work done in Nigeria that identified a number of martial traditions (including several apparent ancestors for Capoeira, which I used to practice). So, I'm definitely not one of those saying that the Africans didn't have their martial traditions. Mostly, I'm trying to understand their weapons in context. As I posted earlier, I'm beginning to suspect that spears and bows were the primary weapons for some groups, and these funky swords that we know so much more about were primarily social tools (rank markers, ritual tools, and art) and secondarily weapons. One thing that gets this list in trouble is that we tend to focus on the swords, knives, and axes, because of their artistic value and striking shapes. A boringly functional spear (especially if it's hard to classify) will get a lot less attention from collectors. Ditto with those boring bows, although there's one example of a hunter whose everyday hunting bow shot as far as the competition bow a European hunter had on safari (Traditional Bowyer's Bible, vol.1). Fearn