Excavated knife/dagger for ID please.

Lew · 14th January 2009, 08:28 PM

England was one of the largest cutlery makers during the 19th century so the blade could have been a second the was discarded.

Lew

Atlantia · 15th January 2009, 03:39 PM

Hi Guys, thanks for keeping this one in mind.
It was brought up by a deep plough. So any remains of a handle were not visible when my friend dug it.
I would normally just assume it was a reasonably modern blade, but it doesn't look like a farmers knife.

Anandalal N. · 15th January 2009, 04:31 PM

I tried sending you this as a PM but could not. I am interested in your comment on olive oil. I have an ancient blade that is badly affected by rust and I was thinking intially of studying it without any invasive cleaning. I have used X-Ray photography before which brings some details out. But if olive oil is an effective rust remover with minimum harm I may try this method. Do you have any more details on this method.

Best Regards.

Tim Simmons · 15th January 2009, 05:26 PM

I think Lew may be right. I found this heavy horse shoe up by the Uffington White horse and the Weyland Smithy. Looks like your knife has been buried in very much the same soil type.

katana · 15th January 2009, 10:54 PM

There are a number of factors that accelerate or slow the 'decay' of iron and steel once buried in soil.

The 'drainage' of the surrounding land caused by the type of soil, the type of underlying strata (bed rock) and location i.e. tops of hills drain well....river valleys do not.

The mineralization of the soil....high content of mineral salts create good 'electrolytic' reactions.....speeding up the rust... with the presence of moisture.

Objects submerged in wet highly organic soils generally 'rot' more slowly due to the anaerobic (without oxygen) environment .....this is due to the fact that iron (steel) cannot easily oxidise (i.e. iron oxide= rust).

I am sure there are a number of individuals (fakers) that have various 'recipes' and techniques that can recreate these effects ..... you only have to look on eBay and see the number of 'genuine' crusader swords found in the Danube (with very low reserve prices

) , antique swords from China

, rusty heavily pitted Zulu "Iklwa" that are claimed to be from the Zulu wars (but made a few years ago

) and the increasing influx of 'old' Khandas and Khyber knives with pitted,rusty blades ....recently made in India .... afterall the 'older' it looks ...the more is paid

Rant over ....deep breath and

Gene, I really wish this was a Seax but the shape etc is not right ...according to some web resources the clip point with a false edge 'materialised' around the 1830's...so perhaps an early Bowie (as already suggested) ...apparently early types were fitted 'into' the handle...as the tang on this one suggests.

Any luck with the rust removal ?

Kind Regards David

Atlantia · 17th January 2009, 03:15 AM

Hi Guys, I'm sure you're right and its not a goody, give me a little bit longer to clean it, I'm using all available space with a couple of other projects at the moment

Soooooon

Tim, yup, does look VERY similar corrosion wise. I think I'm going to be dissapointing my friend once its been cleaned.
Great diagram David! Wish mine had gold runic lettering along the top edge

15th January 2009, 04:31 PM	#3
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Dear Richard, I tried sending you this as a PM but could not. I am interested in your comment on olive oil. I have an ancient blade that is badly affected by rust and I was thinking intially of studying it without any invasive cleaning. I have used X-Ray photography before which brings some details out. But if olive oil is an effective rust remover with minimum harm I may try this method. Do you have any more details on this method. Best Regards.

15th January 2009, 05:26 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I think Lew may be right. I found this heavy horse shoe up by the Uffington White horse and the Weyland Smithy. Looks like your knife has been buried in very much the same soil type. Attached Images

15th January 2009, 10:54 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	There are a number of factors that accelerate or slow the 'decay' of iron and steel once buried in soil. The 'drainage' of the surrounding land caused by the type of soil, the type of underlying strata (bed rock) and location i.e. tops of hills drain well....river valleys do not. The mineralization of the soil....high content of mineral salts create good 'electrolytic' reactions.....speeding up the rust... with the presence of moisture. Objects submerged in wet highly organic soils generally 'rot' more slowly due to the anaerobic (without oxygen) environment .....this is due to the fact that iron (steel) cannot easily oxidise (i.e. iron oxide= rust). I am sure there are a number of individuals (fakers) that have various 'recipes' and techniques that can recreate these effects ..... you only have to look on eBay and see the number of 'genuine' crusader swords found in the Danube (with very low reserve prices ) , antique swords from China , rusty heavily pitted Zulu "Iklwa" that are claimed to be from the Zulu wars (but made a few years ago ) and the increasing influx of 'old' Khandas and Khyber knives with pitted,rusty blades ....recently made in India .... afterall the 'older' it looks ...the more is paid Rant over ....deep breath and Gene, I really wish this was a Seax but the shape etc is not right ...according to some web resources the clip point with a false edge 'materialised' around the 1830's...so perhaps an early Bowie (as already suggested) ...apparently early types were fitted 'into' the handle...as the tang on this one suggests. Any luck with the rust removal ? Kind Regards David Attached Images

14th January 2009, 08:28 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	England was one of the largest cutlery makers during the 19th century so the blade could have been a second the was discarded. Lew

15th January 2009, 03:39 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Guys, thanks for keeping this one in mind. It was brought up by a deep plough. So any remains of a handle were not visible when my friend dug it. I would normally just assume it was a reasonably modern blade, but it doesn't look like a farmers knife.

17th January 2009, 03:15 AM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Guys, I'm sure you're right and its not a goody, give me a little bit longer to clean it, I'm using all available space with a couple of other projects at the moment Soooooon Tim, yup, does look VERY similar corrosion wise. I think I'm going to be dissapointing my friend once its been cleaned. Great diagram David! Wish mine had gold runic lettering along the top edge