A working bolo for your comments

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 04:46 AM

Here's another that's even newer appearing due to the riveted hardwood scales, while the sheath (which I've temporarily misplaced) is of nicely tooled heavy leather and has the "Visayan sash tab" frog(my invented term, sorry) to keep it from sliding through a belt or rope (my guess is 1950's).
At first glance, "machete" pops immediately to mind, while in truth it's nearly indestructible and is my favorite tool for clearing brush, splitting kindling or even felling small trees.
Likewise, the blade appears flat, but upon close examination is expertly constructed with a sideways distal taper(right word?) and even ONE SIDE ONLY almost imperceptably rounded so that it sharpens to and holds an unbelieveabley keen cutting edge that's slightly reminiscent of a chisel grind in addition to the characteristics of a normally tapered blade.
The blade also appears to have been intentionally "blackened" except for the hardened cutting edge in a fashion totally unfamiliar to me.
Where it meets the hilt the blade is 3/8" thick, becomes thinner from top to bottom at mid-point where it curves up slightly instead of having a fuller and weighs a hefty 1 3/4 lbs.
While it's definitely a tool, it's anything but cheap and effectively beheaded a 6 1/2' rattlesnake that waited until I was far too close to rattle, temporarily becoming a weapon of need while I was out cutting saplings for spear hafts.....hey, instinct is instinct.(**grin**)
Mike
ps...found the better photos, sorry

tom hyle · 16th April 2005, 01:34 PM

Conogre, nice looking sword; I find especially interesting the way the "scales" are just barely longer than the tang and drawn together around its end; seems like a (very un-American, for instance) lack of concern with having the tang be "full" to the handle. I don't think it's quite the same type of sword, though it certainly bears a resemblance, and I'd call it, I guess, a matulis descendent; there's only the slightest nod to either the s-curve or the particular taper (as I described in one of these threads) of matulis; rather, despite a pretty vestigial seeming (?) clip to the spine, it seems to be more or less parrallel, edge-to-spine, and if anything, slightly swell-tipped, rather than the squared, but nevertheless narrowed tip we've been seeing. Yours is of a type; I've seen others; it seems like an evolution of matulis, and perhaps it is a matulis, but it's significantly different, of a significantly different style than any others we've discussed so far. The other "cut point" matulis we've seen still display the narrowing toward the tip that makes sense on a thrusting blade (of which it is a vestige, I think), while yours has "decided" (if you will) to take fuller advantage of the fact that it doesn't have a point to say "let's have a tip that's REALLY good for cutting, then; a widened one with mass and momentum, that will be less prone to excessive vibration that robs your cut of its force.). Is 3/8" a typo? It doesn't look that thick in the photos? I've been noticing those Visayan type belt tabs; Rick's one we saw the scabbard has one, and guess who else? One of my famous Mexican bolos!

LabanTayo · 16th April 2005, 02:14 PM

There is a sword in the P.I. called Espading. It has a square tip. Used for cutting sugar cane. Still trying to find what area they call them Espading.
Thats all....

Ian · 16th April 2005, 02:20 PM

Thanks Shelley.

Seems that the word espading (appears to be an adjective) could be related to espada (meaning Spanish in some local dialects). Would this imply locals describing swords or knives that were originally Spanish in their eyes and adopted for local use?

Ian.

LabanTayo · 16th April 2005, 02:57 PM

Ian,
could be...
maybe it came from when the spanish prohibited points on the swords, and all swords were square tipped..
any sword from that era could be called espading?
i'll find out more about espading next week in negros. thats where i heard the word espading.

tom hyle · 16th April 2005, 03:00 PM

Hmmmm Espada is Spanish for sword.
I once had a sword marked "en Toledo Espin".......Espania or Espagna or something (youse know I can't spell in English; what do you expect from Spanish?) is Spain in Spanish, no?

tom hyle · 16th April 2005, 03:12 PM

Conogre, you know where else I've seen that blade like yours? You will once I tell you, if not; with a brass Bonifacio type guard and hoof handle. It's always cool to see traditional PI styles done with flat tangs; one of those occasional things, at least for me, that I enjoy; watching the interactions of influences......

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 09:27 PM

Hi Tom, and sorry, it's 3/16" thick (one of my last posts, while the eyes were crossing instead of the T's **grin**), just shy of 1/4", thick enough that there is NO blade vibration, thus my using it for many traditional axe chores.
A friend gifted me with that one, and being viewed with collecting eyes at the time I wasn't overly impressed while over time it's become a user favorite, prompting closer examination.......familiarity does not always breed contempt!**grin**
Yes, it does have a basic Bonifascio flavor, by the way.
A few months ago, while parrying with a friend I parried a bit too hard and snapped the blade of a Pakistani shortsword without so much as putting a nick in this one.....oooops!
We often look at our pieces strictly through historic eyes, accidently putting on blinders and looking down our noses at recent items, particularly those with ethnographic origins, which often seems paradoxical to me and I find it refreshing to see that there is still much more than meets the eye in regions that have been using blades for centuries.
Mike

16th April 2005, 04:46 AM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Here's another that's even newer appearing due to the riveted hardwood scales, while the sheath (which I've temporarily misplaced) is of nicely tooled heavy leather and has the "Visayan sash tab" frog(my invented term, sorry) to keep it from sliding through a belt or rope (my guess is 1950's). At first glance, "machete" pops immediately to mind, while in truth it's nearly indestructible and is my favorite tool for clearing brush, splitting kindling or even felling small trees. Likewise, the blade appears flat, but upon close examination is expertly constructed with a sideways distal taper(right word?) and even ONE SIDE ONLY almost imperceptably rounded so that it sharpens to and holds an unbelieveabley keen cutting edge that's slightly reminiscent of a chisel grind in addition to the characteristics of a normally tapered blade. The blade also appears to have been intentionally "blackened" except for the hardened cutting edge in a fashion totally unfamiliar to me. Where it meets the hilt the blade is 3/8" thick, becomes thinner from top to bottom at mid-point where it curves up slightly instead of having a fuller and weighs a hefty 1 3/4 lbs. While it's definitely a tool, it's anything but cheap and effectively beheaded a 6 1/2' rattlesnake that waited until I was far too close to rattle, temporarily becoming a weapon of need while I was out cutting saplings for spear hafts.....hey, instinct is instinct.(grin) Mike ps...found the better photos, sorry Attached Images

16th April 2005, 01:34 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Conogre, nice looking sword; I find especially interesting the way the "scales" are just barely longer than the tang and drawn together around its end; seems like a (very un-American, for instance) lack of concern with having the tang be "full" to the handle. I don't think it's quite the same type of sword, though it certainly bears a resemblance, and I'd call it, I guess, a matulis descendent; there's only the slightest nod to either the s-curve or the particular taper (as I described in one of these threads) of matulis; rather, despite a pretty vestigial seeming (?) clip to the spine, it seems to be more or less parrallel, edge-to-spine, and if anything, slightly swell-tipped, rather than the squared, but nevertheless narrowed tip we've been seeing. Yours is of a type; I've seen others; it seems like an evolution of matulis, and perhaps it is a matulis, but it's significantly different, of a significantly different style than any others we've discussed so far. The other "cut point" matulis we've seen still display the narrowing toward the tip that makes sense on a thrusting blade (of which it is a vestige, I think), while yours has "decided" (if you will) to take fuller advantage of the fact that it doesn't have a point to say "let's have a tip that's REALLY good for cutting, then; a widened one with mass and momentum, that will be less prone to excessive vibration that robs your cut of its force.). Is 3/8" a typo? It doesn't look that thick in the photos? I've been noticing those Visayan type belt tabs; Rick's one we saw the scabbard has one, and guess who else? One of my famous Mexican bolos!

16th April 2005, 02:14 PM	#3
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	There is a sword in the P.I. called Espading. It has a square tip. Used for cutting sugar cane. Still trying to find what area they call them Espading. Thats all....

16th April 2005, 02:20 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,397	Thanks Shelley. Seems that the word espading (appears to be an adjective) could be related to espada (meaning Spanish in some local dialects). Would this imply locals describing swords or knives that were originally Spanish in their eyes and adopted for local use? Ian.

16th April 2005, 02:57 PM	#5
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	Ian, could be... maybe it came from when the spanish prohibited points on the swords, and all swords were square tipped.. any sword from that era could be called espading? i'll find out more about espading next week in negros. thats where i heard the word espading.

16th April 2005, 03:00 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Hmmmm Espada is Spanish for sword. I once had a sword marked "en Toledo Espin".......Espania or Espagna or something (youse know I can't spell in English; what do you expect from Spanish?) is Spain in Spanish, no?

16th April 2005, 03:12 PM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Conogre, you know where else I've seen that blade like yours? You will once I tell you, if not; with a brass Bonifacio type guard and hoof handle. It's always cool to see traditional PI styles done with flat tangs; one of those occasional things, at least for me, that I enjoy; watching the interactions of influences......

16th April 2005, 09:27 PM	#8
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Hi Tom, and sorry, it's 3/16" thick (one of my last posts, while the eyes were crossing instead of the T's grin), just shy of 1/4", thick enough that there is NO blade vibration, thus my using it for many traditional axe chores. A friend gifted me with that one, and being viewed with collecting eyes at the time I wasn't overly impressed while over time it's become a user favorite, prompting closer examination.......familiarity does not always breed contempt!grin Yes, it does have a basic Bonifascio flavor, by the way. A few months ago, while parrying with a friend I parried a bit too hard and snapped the blade of a Pakistani shortsword without so much as putting a nick in this one.....oooops! We often look at our pieces strictly through historic eyes, accidently putting on blinders and looking down our noses at recent items, particularly those with ethnographic origins, which often seems paradoxical to me and I find it refreshing to see that there is still much more than meets the eye in regions that have been using blades for centuries. Mike