Mystery blade

Atlantia · 29th December 2008, 08:14 PM

Hi Brian,
Well I'll kick this one off then.
Firstly I like it.
I'm not sure what it is, but I always like that in a weapon!! Increases the fun of the investigation.
Whats the tang like on it? How about another picture with a sheet of paper next to it, and trace the blade then draw the tang on as close as you can remember so we can see it. Were there any marks on the tang?
Are there any marks on the blade?
Is the blade tempered or hardened in any way? Is it sharp?

My first though is that its home made or 'improvised' but as you say it does look a little chinese and might look nice mounted on a shaft.

The steel looks like its totally flat, which might suggest its been cut from an existing sheet and not shaped beyond the cutting of the profile.

But even hand made improvised weapons can be nice and have an interesting story to tell. Look at the amount of reused carving knives and the like that turn up! Or improvised trench/combat knives.

If nobody here has any strong feelings for it, might be worth reposting it in the Ethnographic section.

Gene

Iliad · 29th December 2008, 09:14 PM

Good Morning/Evening Atlantia
I shall attach pics of the mystery blade as it was when I got it, so you can see the tang for yourself. The only mark on the blade is that of 2 interlocked circles on each side of the raised bit on the back edge; you can just make them out in 2 of the first pics posted. I had wondered if they are marks of a vice used to hold the blade while shaping/sharpening. The blade was sharpish when I got it, but I have since improved on the sharpness; it is now a very dangerous weapon. I have no way of knowing if it is tempered or hardened, but it certainly proved much harder to sharpen than some other blades I have dealt with. Yes, it is flat steel.
Interesting thing about sharp weapons, whenever I show some of my swords, daggers etc to people and say "be careful, this is very sharp", the first thing they do is to touch the edge! A bit like a "wet paint" sign!
Brian

Atlantia · 29th December 2008, 09:22 PM

Hi Brian,
Thats very interesting, a long tang but not one which would have slabs fixed to it through holes?

So presumably it would be fixed into a handle with resin/heat some kind of glue..

Hopefully others will join with opinions! It does look to have some age.

I'll have another think.

I can see why you are thinking its a member of the polearm-Dao family but I don't know jack aboout them so we will need the experts to help there.

Gene

kisak · 30th December 2008, 06:54 PM

Odd proportions. The idea of it having started out as a pudao or some such struck me as well, possibly shortened down a bit as well? The original guard has a somewhat east-Asian feel too IMO. And while I don't really have any idea whatsoever how these polearms should be shaped, the "flatness" here makes me thing of ceremonial weapons and the like.

Iliad · 31st December 2008, 06:35 AM

I'm glad to be able to provide the opportunity for research, also glad that somebody other than me is baffled.
I am pleased that Gavin hasn't seen this posting yet, he'll probably say that it was made in Spain in the 1970's!

Brian

Gavin Nugent · 31st December 2008, 11:22 AM

G'day Brian,

I have been watching, I'd say Spanish, 1970's....whoops thinking out loud with my fingers again.
Would you be kind enough to post all dimensions including the origial tang length. Although there are somewhat Chinese influences in style, (I have a trousse/chopper of a vaguely similar shape and a very long replaced handle), the bevelled cutting edges tell me otherwise, all Chinese weapons I have and have seen, taper to the cutting edge from the spine where as this one doesn't. One thing that does appear Chinese to me though is the notch out in the blade near the hilt, I have seen this cut out where a tonkou should be but no evidence that one was ever present

My guess is that it is a big bad bowie knife of an unknown age

As long as it is sharp and holds an edge, it is a valuable user, glad to see you have given it some life back with a new hilt.

Gav

Iliad · 31st December 2008, 08:46 PM

G'day Gav, I had thought that with the South Africans having thrashed, absolutely THRASHED Australia at cricket, you'd be in hiding!
The dimensions are: overall length 45cm; Blade length 29cm; tang length (best estimate) 13cm; blade width at widest point 7 cm; blade width at sawback point 4.5 cm.
Did I mention that South Africa SLAUGHTERED Australia at the cricket?
Oh, how the mighty have fallen!

Cheers, Brian

29th December 2008, 09:14 PM	#2
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Good Morning/Evening Atlantia I shall attach pics of the mystery blade as it was when I got it, so you can see the tang for yourself. The only mark on the blade is that of 2 interlocked circles on each side of the raised bit on the back edge; you can just make them out in 2 of the first pics posted. I had wondered if they are marks of a vice used to hold the blade while shaping/sharpening. The blade was sharpish when I got it, but I have since improved on the sharpness; it is now a very dangerous weapon. I have no way of knowing if it is tempered or hardened, but it certainly proved much harder to sharpen than some other blades I have dealt with. Yes, it is flat steel. Interesting thing about sharp weapons, whenever I show some of my swords, daggers etc to people and say "be careful, this is very sharp", the first thing they do is to touch the edge! A bit like a "wet paint" sign! Brian Attached Images

31st December 2008, 11:22 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Haha, I have been watching G'day Brian, I have been watching, I'd say Spanish, 1970's....whoops thinking out loud with my fingers again. Would you be kind enough to post all dimensions including the origial tang length. Although there are somewhat Chinese influences in style, (I have a trousse/chopper of a vaguely similar shape and a very long replaced handle), the bevelled cutting edges tell me otherwise, all Chinese weapons I have and have seen, taper to the cutting edge from the spine where as this one doesn't. One thing that does appear Chinese to me though is the notch out in the blade near the hilt, I have seen this cut out where a tonkou should be but no evidence that one was ever present My guess is that it is a big bad bowie knife of an unknown age As long as it is sharp and holds an edge, it is a valuable user, glad to see you have given it some life back with a new hilt. Gav Last edited by freebooter; 31st December 2008 at 11:33 AM.

29th December 2008, 08:14 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Brian, Well I'll kick this one off then. Firstly I like it. I'm not sure what it is, but I always like that in a weapon!! Increases the fun of the investigation. Whats the tang like on it? How about another picture with a sheet of paper next to it, and trace the blade then draw the tang on as close as you can remember so we can see it. Were there any marks on the tang? Are there any marks on the blade? Is the blade tempered or hardened in any way? Is it sharp? My first though is that its home made or 'improvised' but as you say it does look a little chinese and might look nice mounted on a shaft. The steel looks like its totally flat, which might suggest its been cut from an existing sheet and not shaped beyond the cutting of the profile. But even hand made improvised weapons can be nice and have an interesting story to tell. Look at the amount of reused carving knives and the like that turn up! Or improvised trench/combat knives. If nobody here has any strong feelings for it, might be worth reposting it in the Ethnographic section. Gene

29th December 2008, 09:22 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Brian, Thats very interesting, a long tang but not one which would have slabs fixed to it through holes? So presumably it would be fixed into a handle with resin/heat some kind of glue.. Hopefully others will join with opinions! It does look to have some age. I'll have another think. I can see why you are thinking its a member of the polearm-Dao family but I don't know jack aboout them so we will need the experts to help there. Gene

30th December 2008, 06:54 PM	#4
kisak Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 182	Odd proportions. The idea of it having started out as a pudao or some such struck me as well, possibly shortened down a bit as well? The original guard has a somewhat east-Asian feel too IMO. And while I don't really have any idea whatsoever how these polearms should be shaped, the "flatness" here makes me thing of ceremonial weapons and the like.

31st December 2008, 06:35 AM	#5
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	I'm glad to be able to provide the opportunity for research, also glad that somebody other than me is baffled. I am pleased that Gavin hasn't seen this posting yet, he'll probably say that it was made in Spain in the 1970's! Brian

31st December 2008, 08:46 PM	#7
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	G'day Gav, I had thought that with the South Africans having thrashed, absolutely THRASHED Australia at cricket, you'd be in hiding! The dimensions are: overall length 45cm; Blade length 29cm; tang length (best estimate) 13cm; blade width at widest point 7 cm; blade width at sawback point 4.5 cm. Did I mention that South Africa SLAUGHTERED Australia at the cricket? Oh, how the mighty have fallen! Cheers, Brian