Unusual Indian Hindu Gods Dagger?

Atlantia · 22nd December 2008, 02:07 AM

Sorry, I just wanted another look and thought it deserves a BUMP.

I've asked Santa if he can find one like it for me......

Cant be much help on the ornamentation, but the 'face of glory' Makara mask is an interesting field of study on its own.
I really love the bowl I have so delved into the image a little and found an interesting site whre a chap has traced the 'Greem Man' image back through history and has conjectured a link to the Makara image (which seems lieky IMHO). Have alook at the page, or at least the one that covers the 'green man' in India. Searching on the Makara image might be a starting point for the other parts of the design, google face of glory, makara etc and see if you come acropss any other designs that show similarities?

green man/makara page

VANDOO · 22nd December 2008, 05:21 AM

THE SWORD I SAW WAS A KASTANCE AND THE EYES OF THE MONSTERS WERE RUBYS AND THE HANDLE SOLID SILVER. THE BLADE WAS BLACK WITH STABLE RUST AND UNFORTUNATELY THERE WAS NO SCABBARD. THE QUALITY OF WORKMANSHIP WAS ON A LEVEL WITH YOUR DAGGER BUT THE DESIGN WAS PURE CEYLON (SIRI LANKA) STYLE LIKE ALL KASTANCE SWORDS I HAVE SEEN. I SAW IT AT A GUN SHOW IN THE MID 1970'S BUT DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY AND COULD NOT INTEREST THE DEALER IN TRADING FOR CIVIL WAR SWORDS.
JUST TO MAKE SOME GUESSES ON THE DESIGN OF YOUR DAGGER. IT IS POSSIBLE THE TOP LARGE MALE FACE IS LORD RAMA AND THE FEMALE BELOW HIM WITH THE CROWN IS HIS WIFE SITA. PERHAPS THE 4 MALE FIGURES ENTANGLED ARE MEN, MONKEYS AND DEAMONS FIGHTING. THE FEMALE FIGURE BELOW THAT DOES NOT HAVE A CROWN AND DOSEN'T LOOK LIKE A DEAMON SO I CAN'T EVEN GUESS AS TO WHO SHE MIGHT BE. THESE CARACTERS COME FROM THE RAMAYANA STORYS AND DO VARY IN DIFFERENT AREAS WHERE THE HINDU RELIGION IS OR HAS BEEN.
IN BALI THERE IS A LION BARONG WHICH IS THE KING OF THE SPIRITS AND ALWAYS FIGHTS ON THE SIDE OF GOOD AGAINST EVIL. PERHAPS THE LION LIKE FACE AT THE TOP REPRESENTS THE BARONG. THEY DO EXCELLENT QUALITY METAL WORK IN BALI AND THE HANDLE SHAPE ON YOUR KNIFE REMINDS ME MORE OF A KERIS THAN A PHIA. SO BALI IS ANOTHER POSSIBILITY AS I HAVE SEEN SEVERAL SOLID SILVER KERIS THERE AND SIMULAR STONES SET IN THE TOP QUALITY ITEMS. I HAVE EVEN SEEN 2 KERIS THAT HAD SOLID SILVER BLADES AS WELL.

spiral · 6th January 2009, 07:27 PM

Sorry chaps , been rather busy over the festive period!

Thankyou Atlantia, for bump & input.

Cheers Vandoo! Great input, Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

So all though Sri Lanka seems the popular choice, we still cant rule out Bali it seems. Fascinating!

Do he workman in Bali build out of many sections put together ? the gold ring holding the stones is separate but beutifully fitted over part of the silver & gilt handle, but other pieces show silver & one gold pin heads apparently holding evrything onto an inner core? Ive seen such work on many Piha kattas but have only ever handled 3 keris, so its not in my minds knowledge base.

Has anyone examples of similar keris handles? Could the cast guard & dagger blades be later editions to a keris handle perhaps? Although the guard appears exactly made for this piece it doesnt rule out the adaption of a Keris handle with a custom made guard Euro blade perhaps?

All input welcome!

Spiral

22nd December 2008, 02:07 AM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Sorry, I just wanted another look and thought it deserves a BUMP. I've asked Santa if he can find one like it for me...... Cant be much help on the ornamentation, but the 'face of glory' Makara mask is an interesting field of study on its own. I really love the bowl I have so delved into the image a little and found an interesting site whre a chap has traced the 'Greem Man' image back through history and has conjectured a link to the Makara image (which seems lieky IMHO). Have alook at the page, or at least the one that covers the 'green man' in India. Searching on the Makara image might be a starting point for the other parts of the design, google face of glory, makara etc and see if you come acropss any other designs that show similarities? green man/makara page

22nd December 2008, 05:21 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE SWORD I SAW WAS A KASTANCE AND THE EYES OF THE MONSTERS WERE RUBYS AND THE HANDLE SOLID SILVER. THE BLADE WAS BLACK WITH STABLE RUST AND UNFORTUNATELY THERE WAS NO SCABBARD. THE QUALITY OF WORKMANSHIP WAS ON A LEVEL WITH YOUR DAGGER BUT THE DESIGN WAS PURE CEYLON (SIRI LANKA) STYLE LIKE ALL KASTANCE SWORDS I HAVE SEEN. I SAW IT AT A GUN SHOW IN THE MID 1970'S BUT DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY AND COULD NOT INTEREST THE DEALER IN TRADING FOR CIVIL WAR SWORDS. JUST TO MAKE SOME GUESSES ON THE DESIGN OF YOUR DAGGER. IT IS POSSIBLE THE TOP LARGE MALE FACE IS LORD RAMA AND THE FEMALE BELOW HIM WITH THE CROWN IS HIS WIFE SITA. PERHAPS THE 4 MALE FIGURES ENTANGLED ARE MEN, MONKEYS AND DEAMONS FIGHTING. THE FEMALE FIGURE BELOW THAT DOES NOT HAVE A CROWN AND DOSEN'T LOOK LIKE A DEAMON SO I CAN'T EVEN GUESS AS TO WHO SHE MIGHT BE. THESE CARACTERS COME FROM THE RAMAYANA STORYS AND DO VARY IN DIFFERENT AREAS WHERE THE HINDU RELIGION IS OR HAS BEEN. IN BALI THERE IS A LION BARONG WHICH IS THE KING OF THE SPIRITS AND ALWAYS FIGHTS ON THE SIDE OF GOOD AGAINST EVIL. PERHAPS THE LION LIKE FACE AT THE TOP REPRESENTS THE BARONG. THEY DO EXCELLENT QUALITY METAL WORK IN BALI AND THE HANDLE SHAPE ON YOUR KNIFE REMINDS ME MORE OF A KERIS THAN A PHIA. SO BALI IS ANOTHER POSSIBILITY AS I HAVE SEEN SEVERAL SOLID SILVER KERIS THERE AND SIMULAR STONES SET IN THE TOP QUALITY ITEMS. I HAVE EVEN SEEN 2 KERIS THAT HAD SOLID SILVER BLADES AS WELL.

6th January 2009, 07:27 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Sorry chaps , been rather busy over the festive period! Thankyou Atlantia, for bump & input. Cheers Vandoo! Great input, Thanks for sharing your knowledge. So all though Sri Lanka seems the popular choice, we still cant rule out Bali it seems. Fascinating! Do he workman in Bali build out of many sections put together ? the gold ring holding the stones is separate but beutifully fitted over part of the silver & gilt handle, but other pieces show silver & one gold pin heads apparently holding evrything onto an inner core? Ive seen such work on many Piha kattas but have only ever handled 3 keris, so its not in my minds knowledge base. Has anyone examples of similar keris handles? Could the cast guard & dagger blades be later editions to a keris handle perhaps? Although the guard appears exactly made for this piece it doesnt rule out the adaption of a Keris handle with a custom made guard Euro blade perhaps? All input welcome! Spiral